A Killing I Did Not See Coming

Waski_the_Squirrel

Resident of the least visited state in the nation.
The body cam footage from the killing of unarmed Samuel Dubose in Cincinnati has been released. I saw it as part of a news piece on YouTube. In watching it, I didn't see it coming. It didn't sound like the officer was high on adrenaline, and the driver sounded more whiny than angry. And then it happened, almost out of nowhere.

We need to find a way to weed people like this out of our police forces.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/29/cincinnati-police-shooting-samuel-dubose

Here is the video. Warning: it shows someone being killed, and some of you may be offended by the news anchor's comments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw9JNJrzldM
 
Waski_the_Squirrel date=1438276809 said:
The body cam footage from the killing of unarmed Samuel Dubose in Cincinnati has been released. I saw it as part of a news piece on YouTube. In watching it, I didn't see it coming. It didn't sound like the officer was high on adrenaline, and the driver sounded more whiny than angry. And then it happened, almost out of nowhere.

We need to find a way to weed people like this out of our police forces.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/29/cincinnati-police-shooting-samuel-dubose

Here is the video. Warning: it shows someone being killed, and some of you may be offended by the news anchor's comments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw9JNJrzldM
I have no idea if this is the end all be all of this story.
Examples, did the kid have a gun? did the kid have a warrant? things like that

But, here is my take, just on the video posted.
The driver shouldn't have started to drive away, the cop (from what I could see) shouldn't have shot at the kid.
Let the justice system do it's job.

And the most important thing I took away from this video, the "news" guy is someone that needs shooting, just for being so annoying, if not for other reasons.
 
stradial date=1438277489 said:
Waski_the_Squirrel date=1438276809 said:
The body cam footage from the killing of unarmed Samuel Dubose in Cincinnati has been released. I saw it as part of a news piece on YouTube. In watching it, I didn't see it coming. It didn't sound like the officer was high on adrenaline, and the driver sounded more whiny than angry. And then it happened, almost out of nowhere.

We need to find a way to weed people like this out of our police forces.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/29/cincinnati-police-shooting-samuel-dubose

Here is the video. Warning: it shows someone being killed, and some of you may be offended by the news anchor's comments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw9JNJrzldM
I have no idea if this is the end all be all of this story.
Examples, did the kid have a gun? did the kid have a warrant? things like that

But, here is my take, just on the video posted.
The driver shouldn't have started to drive away, the cop (from what I could see) shouldn't have shot at the kid.
Let the justice system do it's job.

And the most important thing I took away from this video, the "news" guy is someone that needs shooting, just for being so annoying, if not for other reasons.

No gun and no warrant. The justice system is doing its job. The cop was indicted.

Yes, the news guy is annoying, but I don't believe in shooting people for being annoying.
 
Waski_the_Squirrel date=1438278235 said:
stradial date=1438277489 said:
Waski_the_Squirrel date=1438276809 said:
The body cam footage from the killing of unarmed Samuel Dubose in Cincinnati has been released. I saw it as part of a news piece on YouTube. In watching it, I didn't see it coming. It didn't sound like the officer was high on adrenaline, and the driver sounded more whiny than angry. And then it happened, almost out of nowhere.

We need to find a way to weed people like this out of our police forces.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/29/cincinnati-police-shooting-samuel-dubose

Here is the video. Warning: it shows someone being killed, and some of you may be offended by the news anchor's comments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw9JNJrzldM
I have no idea if this is the end all be all of this story.
Examples, did the kid have a gun? did the kid have a warrant? things like that

But, here is my take, just on the video posted.
The driver shouldn't have started to drive away, the cop (from what I could see) shouldn't have shot at the kid.
Let the justice system do it's job.

And the most important thing I took away from this video, the "news" guy is someone that needs shooting, just for being so annoying, if not for other reasons.

No gun and no warrant. The justice system is doing its job. The cop was indicted.

Yes, the news guy is annoying, but I don't believe in shooting people for being annoying.

I said there were other reasons besides being annoying.
 
As I stated on the other site:

Just once I'd like to see one of these "innocent" people getting shot by a cop that *isn't* doing two or three illegal things at once. If they were not stupid, they'd still be alive. (Not that stupidity deserves a death sentence, but it often leads to one even without a cop involved, also known as the redneck "Hey, Y'all watch this!" syndrome. )

While not condoning shooting of unarmed people, watching the video, I don't think this one is near as cut and dry as people are saying.

The driver was either an idiot, on drugs, or both, to not be able to answer the cops question about having his license on him. Not being able to hand the cop his license and handing him a bottle of Gin out of the car instead was crazy. With those actions he's already got the cop thinking he'd better watch this guy.

Then the driver resists the officer opening the door and stomps the gas trying to get away.

It's hard to tell from the camera angle, but it almost looks to me like the cop was reaching in to stop the driver when the driver hit the gas and either it caught on the door, giving in the cop the idea he was going to be dragged, or the car hit the pistol hand and it went off then.

Should there be an investigation? Definitely, a man is dead after a traffic stop. Shouldn't happen.

However, I do believe that once again a prosecutor has either been pushed to, or chose to, charge a cop with a crime that is going to be hard to prove (murder, requiring per-meditation), rather than the one that guaranteed a conviction (involuntary manslaughter, as even if accident, he has the responsibility to control his firearm no matter what the situation)

I've had family that was persecuted by cops and agree it's annoying, BIL was pulled over 4 nights in a row when driving home from work at 3:00 am by Smyrna cops claiming he was 'weaving' and giving him lots of DUI tests, but it's not worth losing your life over. Just call the news later and have them raise Cain about it. (In our case, the 4th night, BIL had a flat and FIL went to help him change it. He was following when the cop pulled BIL over, he stopped as well, and cop tried to intimidate him away, but he doesn't do intimated real well. He was lucky he wasn't shot, but with two people there, the cop backed down and left him alone after that.)

I keep going back to the photographer in Savannah right after the church shooting who was mistaken as the shooter. Had he argued with the cops who were obviously in a bad mood about the shooting and worried about confronting a mass murderer who still had a weapon, and then tried to run away, he very likely would be shot and possibly killed. However, he did what he was told, and though he spent the night at the police station, he walked away with no harm the next morning.
 
No doubt that the kid was pulling off, but he was no physical threat to the officers. You can't shoot someone for driving off from a stop.
 
lotstodo date=1438287994 said:
No doubt that the kid was pulling off, but he was no physical threat to the officers. You can't shoot someone for driving off from a stop.

Can you shoot an annoying and stupid TV guy?
 
lotstodo date=1438287994 said:
No doubt that the kid was pulling off, but he was no physical threat to the officers. You can't shoot someone for driving off from a stop.

Agreed.

That's why I think it was an accident and he tried to make it out like it was the driver's fault to save his job and jail time. ( Note: Didn't work for the job, we'll see on the jail time) I'm not sure why the gun was pulled, I doubt it was standard procedure to pull the pistol on a traffic stop. I just don't see it as meeting the requirements for Murder, but then again, I've been told I don't understand the law completely either. (Which wouldn't surprise me)
 
Just using common sense and a little logic, here is my thought on the whole "shooting black kids by the cops" thing.

First, you have to assume that there are one hell of a lot of cops that are willing to kill for no reason other than race.
That is one heck of an assumption.
One of the things that is hardest for the military to overcome in training it's personnel, is the natural instinct for people not to kill another person. And these are people that have been through months of training...about how to kill who are actively trying to kill them back.
So we have to make the assumption that there are a fair amount of people that have no problem killing people who pose no threat to them or society, just because they are young and black.

Second, now that we have this group of police officers that are willing to kill unarmed and peaceful citizens, just because they are young and black, we have to assume that these cops don't think they will ever get in any trouble for these murders.
Forget the fact that every time a LE officer fires their weapon, regardless of whether anyone is injured, much less killed, there is supposed to be an investigation to determine if that weapon should have been fired.
But, our group of killers aren't worried about any such investigation.
After all, that "blue code" will protect them.
Forget the fact that not every co-worker likes every other co-worker and just can't wait for the other co-worked to screw up and get fired, forget the fact that there has to be (I mean come on, the law of averages dictates that there has to be) at least one person on the force that has more morals and ethics than a devotion to the "blue code", forget the fact that nowadays there are not only dash cams and body cams, but there are tons and tons of cell phones that could video (as was the case in the clip) what took place, apparently our killers don't care about these things, so intent are they on killing the innocent black men.

Third, now that we have decided that our LE officer is a remorseless killer of people, black men in particular, who doesn't fear being fired from their job, much less tried and jailed for these murders; we have to also figure that they never watch TV, read a paper, listen to the radio or talk to anyone except other cops.
Why do I say that?
Because, if you are hell bent on murdering black men and are a LE officer, you have to have been cut off from all media and mainstream conversation to not know that a LE officer shooting a black man is going to make BIG news, regardless of why they were shot.
(Heck, there is a case in TX where some black guy broke into a house, the home owner blew him away and the family of the thief is claiming the home owner should have warned the thief that he had a gun before shooting him. I could be wrong, but I think they are trying to sue.)
But our assassin didn't take the job of a LE officer for the great pay and the free meals, not to mention the ability to talk down to people and be an ass for no reason, they took the job to kill innocent black men and kill innocent black men is what they are going to, regardless of the media attention, the judicial attention and the judgement of their fellow officers, who may think they were wrong. (ooops, my bad, I forgot about that "blue code")

So if we look at this hysteria about killing innocent black men for no reason other than they are black men, common sense and logic will tell you that there is more to these stories than some people and a lot of media would have you think.
Are there cases where an innocent person gets killed by law enforcement?
Yes, absolutely.
It does happen and has always happened and will always happen, for many reasons.
When that happens, that case should be investigated and the proper consequences applied.

Back in the mid 70's, a Cobb County police officer (MacDaddy may recall this) by the name of Bone, pulled a white kid over on S. Cobb drive.
I went to school with Officer Bone's brother and knew his mother well.
Anyway, it was cold out that night and the white kid got out of his car and approached Officer Bone.
Officer Bone told the kid to say where he was, but the kid kept coming and then the kid reached around his back and pulled something out from under his coat.
Officer Bone drew his weapon and fired, killing the kid.
Turned out, the kid was reaching for and had pulled his wallet out of his back pocket.
Officer Bone was fired and was tried on some charge. (can't remember the charge) and I don't remember the outcome of the trial. (perhaps others may)
There was a lot of dissension among people, some who thought that justice was being served and others who thought that while Officer Bone may have needed to be fired, he certainly didn't need to be tried for a criminal offence.

My point is, anyone that thinks cops are going around, willynilly, killing innocent black men for no reason other than they are black men, needs to step back and use some common sense and logic.
Anyone that doesn't look at the behavior and actions of the person who is stopped by the cops, is hiding their head in the sand.
Anyone that doesn't understand that cops are just people and that mistakes have and will always get made, yes, often with serious and life ending results, live in a dream world.
So take each case as it comes, you cannot lump them all together, anymore than you can say that because a disproportion of violent crime is caused by young black men, that all young black men are violent criminals

A few last notes.

If I am driving in another state, I do not speed quite as much or as fast as I do in GA.
Why?
Because I know that if the cop has an option of pulling me over vs another car doing the same thing, but with a tag from that state, the odds are that I am getting pulled over.
Why?
Human nature.
So if the odds are greater that something bad will happen if you do something you shouldn't, be extra careful in those situations to not do anything you shouldn't.....like drive off with the cop's arm in your window.

Whether it is right or fair, on the street cops get the last word, so no matter how much of an asshat they are, maintain your cool and try and remember what your goal is, get out of there with the least amount of problems.
Fair? No!
Right? No!
Fact" Yes!

As far as the video Waski posted, thanks for posting, well, with the exception of the moronic talking head.
This is a topic that isn't going away any time soon, so discussion is always good.
 
You'd also think by now, after all the recent media coverage, that people would get the message once they're pulled over by LE:

1. Keep you hands at 10 and 2 (ok 9 and 3 for airbag safety)
2. Yes Sir/Maam or No Sir/Maam (it's really not that hard to say, even for Yankees)
3. Have your license and insurance card already out and visible for LE (even though they're checked electronically)
3. Do NOT argue with LE (see rule #2)
4. Do NOT reach for ANYTHING without LE consent (and when you do reach very slowly)
5. Do NOT attempt to evade or escape
6. Do NOT approach an officer without consent

Do all of these things and you can, with 99.9% certainty, continue to live happily ever after. (well, after your court date and paying your ticket)
Omit any one of these rules and you're risking your life unnecessarily (LE officers are human and naturally take whatever steps are necessary to preserve their life too).

For those 0.01% of times that something unusual occurs, there are investigations to determine if proper procedures were followed. Obviously mistakes are made and there are some bad apples in LE, but in my opinion it is not that common.

I truly do hate that the man lost his life but after looking at the video he didn't follow all the above rules. Not that it justified being shot, I'm not saying that, but I can't help but wonder if he would still be alive had he followed the rules.
 
J-man date=1438296030 said:
You'd also think by now, after all the recent media coverage, that people would get the message once they're pulled over by LE:

1. Keep you hands at 10 and 2 (ok 9 and 3 for airbag safety)
2. Yes Sir/Maam or No Sir/Maam (it's really not that hard to say, even for Yankees)
3. Have your license and insurance card already out and visible for LE (even though they're checked electronically)
3. Do NOT argue with LE (see rule #)
4. Do NOT reach for ANYTHING without LE consent (and when you do reach very slowly)
5. Do NOT attempt to evade or escape
6. Do NOT approach an officer without consent

Do all of these things and you can, with 99.9% certainty, continue to live happily ever after. (well, after your court date and paying your ticket)
Omit any one of these rules and you're risking your life unnecessarily (LE officers are human and naturally take whatever steps are necessary to preserve their life too).

For those 0.01% of times that something unusual occurs, there are investigations to determine if proper procedures were followed. Obviously mistakes are made and there are some bad apples in LE, but in my opinion it is not that common.

I truly do hate that the man lost his life but after looking at the video he didn't follow all the above rules. Not that it justified being shot, I'm not saying that, but I can't help but wonder if he would still be alive had he followed the rules.
Damn that common sense!
 
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