Let's Not Forget the Fundamentalist Element

[honeybunny]

There is no comparison.


:girlsaysno

 

[ShoeDiva]

Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people. John Wycliffe can tell you about that. The church burned him at the stake for the crime of bringing the Bible to the people. The biggest thing keeping Muslims from reading the Koran is illiteracy.

And I would say we're guilty of judging the Muslims in a way we don't want to be judged. (Matthew 7) It's right to condemn the extremists just as we should condemn those of any other faith. But what I've been reading on this board does not make that distinction. We seem to see Muslims as the enemy, not the extremist groups. Most Muslims just want to live their lives. I certainly don't want to be judged because of this awful pastor in Arizona or the Christians in Africa killing witches right now.

And let's not forget the big role the US played in bringing ISIS to power. We created the opening that allowed that foul crop to grow. And, through the years, we have interfered in the middle east. We deposed an Iranian government, installed our own pet dictator, and seemed to be shocked when our pet dictator fell to Muslim fundamentalists.

Most people don't even understand the different branches of Islam. How many know the difference between Shia and Sunni? How many know about the bitter hatred between them? How many people know that Iran is bitterly opposed to Isis and has been fighting them? And why, after 9-11, have we largely given the Wahhabis a pass when that act of terrorism grew from Wahhabism? Or that ISIS has sprung forth from Wahhabism?

That is so horrible! I did not realize until a few years ago that they were doing that, the torture they put them through is unfathomable!

I could not find any online articles about this. Do you have any links?

I know when my son did the report on it a few years back he used Google (to start.) There were hundreds of articles at the time. :dunno It was the fact he did the report that made me realize it was happening.

 

[ShoeDiva]

Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people. John Wycliffe can tell you about that. The church burned him at the stake for the crime of bringing the Bible to the people. The biggest thing keeping Muslims from reading the Koran is illiteracy.

And I would say we're guilty of judging the Muslims in a way we don't want to be judged. (Matthew 7) It's right to condemn the extremists just as we should condemn those of any other faith. But what I've been reading on this board does not make that distinction. We seem to see Muslims as the enemy, not the extremist groups. Most Muslims just want to live their lives. I certainly don't want to be judged because of this awful pastor in Arizona or the Christians in Africa killing witches right now.

And let's not forget the big role the US played in bringing ISIS to power. We created the opening that allowed that foul crop to grow. And, through the years, we have interfered in the middle east. We deposed an Iranian government, installed our own pet dictator, and seemed to be shocked when our pet dictator fell to Muslim fundamentalists.

Most people don't even understand the different branches of Islam. How many know the difference between Shia and Sunni? How many know about the bitter hatred between them? How many people know that Iran is bitterly opposed to Isis and has been fighting them? And why, after 9-11, have we largely given the Wahhabis a pass when that act of terrorism grew from Wahhabism? Or that ISIS has sprung forth from Wahhabism?

That is so horrible! I did not realize until a few years ago that they were doing that, the torture they put them through is unfathomable!

I could not find any online articles about this. Do you have any links?

I know when my son did the report on it a few years back he used Google (to start.) There were hundreds of articles at the time. :dunno It was the fact he did the report that made me realize it was happening.

I just typed in burning witches in Africa and received 399,000 hits. What are you typing?

 

[honeybunny]

I don't see anywhere that he says if you don't agree with him then he must kill you. Even the Westboro crazies don't kill people.

You do know that in the Quran that there are multiple places where it also states that you can not kill anyone.

No. I could not confirm or deny that. I won't even pretend that I know because I have not read it and have no current plans to read it. I do know that the Bible specifically says thou shalt not kill.

I will admit that I resent being compared to ISIS (in any fashion whatsoever, either by the video above (or to Westboro). I can assure you that NO members of my church have posted online pictures of themselves holding someone's severed head in their hand. And, I really don't care to hear anymore about the "Crusades" from almost a thousand years ago.

I agree I do too, but I also know thousands of Muslims that feel the same way we do about them being compared to ISIS. Many are speaking out on social media, through their leaders, etc. against the comparison and the fact that they spend so much time apologizing. They did not do it, fanatics taking things out of context (no one says that certain things are not in the Quran, just that they do not apply to this day and time, just like stuff in the Bible that no longer apply) did and they have to live with the constant hatred toward them for what one crazy group does.

I post things like this as a reminder that the sick element in ISIS is also in our own faith. Most of us are secularized enough that we don't follow the extreme things in our Bible, but they are there. But, sick people like this man, given the right conditions, could inflame passions. We've seen it in the Muslim world. Right now, the extremist element is getting stronger in Turkey, and it already happened in Afghanistan, Iran, and other countries.

We already are seeing crazies targeting Muslims in this country (or targeting Hindus since they're too ignorant to know the difference). These are the same kinds of people who, in a different environment, would be cutting off heads.

And let's not forget that the Inquisition is a much more contemporary evil of the Christian faith. It didn't end until the 19th/20th centuries (a little fuzzy, depending on definitions). In 1858, there is the Mortara case: a 6-year-old Jewish boy was kidnaped from his parents by Church authorities. Why? He was given emergency baptism by a servant when it looked like he would die. This made him Catholic under church doctrine. The Catholic Church brainwashed him against the religion of his birth and he went on to become a Catholic priest and died that way, thanks to the CHURCH kidnaping him. Pope Pius IX defended this kidnaping. Later, in the 20th century and 21st century this issue came up again as the church attempted to beatify and canonize him. Now, I'm Presbyterian, so I don't believe in either of these things, but I also don't think these honors should be given to a man who defended such an act, and have a problem with the modern church considering them.

Or, more contemporary examples, look at the witches being killed in the modern day by Christians in Africa. Killing for religion is very much alive in the Christian faith.

And that's why we have to fight the hate and evil in our church, and look with clear and open eyes at our own faith. It's easy to turn a blind eye when it's on our side.

^^^ This is what a false equivalence looks like.

 

[honeybunny]

One interesting note is that the founder of the band EODM, Jesse Hughes, is an
unabashed right wing Conservative Christian and a former Reagan speechwriter.

He is also an ordained minister.


8)

 

[Guard Dad]

I don't think it's a matter of being secularized; I think it's more about being more civilized and educated. All of us have easy access to our Bibles, so we can read with our own eyes what it says. I have been told that the Muslim clerics actually try to keep other Muslims from reading for themselves, and prefer that their people blindly believe what they are being taught.

In contrast; our Bible warns of false prophets and commands up to pass what we are being taught by the muster of The Word (meaning confirm what our preachers tell us by doing our own Bible study).

And frankly, our society as a whole puts more value on human life than Muslims usually do.

The Koran warns against false prophets as well.

Who does more wrong than those who invent a lie against Allah? They will be turned back to the presence of their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied against their Lord! Behold! The curse of Allah is on those who do wrong! [The Holy Quran,11:18]

Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people. John Wycliffe can tell you about that. The church burned him at the stake for the crime of bringing the Bible to the people. The biggest thing keeping Muslims from reading the Koran is illiteracy.

And I would say we're guilty of judging the Muslims in a way we don't want to be judged. (Matthew 7) It's right to condemn the extremists just as we should condemn those of any other faith. But what I've been reading on this board does not make that distinction. We seem to see Muslims as the enemy, not the extremist groups. Most Muslims just want to live their lives. I certainly don't want to be judged because of this awful pastor in Arizona or the Christians in Africa killing witches right now.

And let's not forget the big role the US played in bringing ISIS to power. We created the opening that allowed that foul crop to grow. And, through the years, we have interfered in the middle east. We deposed an Iranian government, installed our own pet dictator, and seemed to be shocked when our pet dictator fell to Muslim fundamentalists.

Most people don't even understand the different branches of Islam. How many know the difference between Shia and Sunni? How many know about the bitter hatred between them? How many people know that Iran is bitterly opposed to Isis and has been fighting them? And why, after 9-11, have we largely given the Wahhabis a pass when that act of terrorism grew from Wahhabism? Or that ISIS has sprung forth from Wahhabism?

"Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people."

One of the main reasons that the printing press was not welcomed by the leaders of the christian churches.

I have my doubts about that. But regardless, that was long ago. We all have virtually unlimited access to Biblical knowledge now.

 

[Guard Dad]

I don't think it's a matter of being secularized; I think it's more about being more civilized and educated. All of us have easy access to our Bibles, so we can read with our own eyes what it says. I have been told that the Muslim clerics actually try to keep other Muslims from reading for themselves, and prefer that their people blindly believe what they are being taught.

In contrast; our Bible warns of false prophets and commands up to pass what we are being taught by the muster of The Word (meaning confirm what our preachers tell us by doing our own Bible study).

And frankly, our society as a whole puts more value on human life than Muslims usually do.

:wut Who told you that?

I'm heard and read that for years. Many of the documentaries I've watched said the same thing. It was apparently forbidden at one time (might still be, dunno) to translate the Quaran into other languages because the clerics didn't want people actually reading it for themselves.

 

[stradial]

I don't think it's a matter of being secularized; I think it's more about being more civilized and educated. All of us have easy access to our Bibles, so we can read with our own eyes what it says. I have been told that the Muslim clerics actually try to keep other Muslims from reading for themselves, and prefer that their people blindly believe what they are being taught.

In contrast; our Bible warns of false prophets and commands up to pass what we are being taught by the muster of The Word (meaning confirm what our preachers tell us by doing our own Bible study).

And frankly, our society as a whole puts more value on human life than Muslims usually do.

The Koran warns against false prophets as well.

Who does more wrong than those who invent a lie against Allah? They will be turned back to the presence of their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied against their Lord! Behold! The curse of Allah is on those who do wrong! [The Holy Quran,11:18]

Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people. John Wycliffe can tell you about that. The church burned him at the stake for the crime of bringing the Bible to the people. The biggest thing keeping Muslims from reading the Koran is illiteracy.

And I would say we're guilty of judging the Muslims in a way we don't want to be judged. (Matthew 7) It's right to condemn the extremists just as we should condemn those of any other faith. But what I've been reading on this board does not make that distinction. We seem to see Muslims as the enemy, not the extremist groups. Most Muslims just want to live their lives. I certainly don't want to be judged because of this awful pastor in Arizona or the Christians in Africa killing witches right now.

And let's not forget the big role the US played in bringing ISIS to power. We created the opening that allowed that foul crop to grow. And, through the years, we have interfered in the middle east. We deposed an Iranian government, installed our own pet dictator, and seemed to be shocked when our pet dictator fell to Muslim fundamentalists.

Most people don't even understand the different branches of Islam. How many know the difference between Shia and Sunni? How many know about the bitter hatred between them? How many people know that Iran is bitterly opposed to Isis and has been fighting them? And why, after 9-11, have we largely given the Wahhabis a pass when that act of terrorism grew from Wahhabism? Or that ISIS has sprung forth from Wahhabism?

"Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people."

One of the main reasons that the printing press was not welcomed by the leaders of the christian churches.

I have my doubts about that. But regardless, that was long ago. We all have virtually unlimited access to Biblical knowledge now.

Doubt all you wish, still true.
And yes, it was a long long long time ago, sometime in the 15th century.

 

[Guard Dad]

I don't think it's a matter of being secularized; I think it's more about being more civilized and educated. All of us have easy access to our Bibles, so we can read with our own eyes what it says. I have been told that the Muslim clerics actually try to keep other Muslims from reading for themselves, and prefer that their people blindly believe what they are being taught.

In contrast; our Bible warns of false prophets and commands up to pass what we are being taught by the muster of The Word (meaning confirm what our preachers tell us by doing our own Bible study).

And frankly, our society as a whole puts more value on human life than Muslims usually do.

The Koran warns against false prophets as well.

Who does more wrong than those who invent a lie against Allah? They will be turned back to the presence of their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied against their Lord! Behold! The curse of Allah is on those who do wrong! [The Holy Quran,11:18]

Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people. John Wycliffe can tell you about that. The church burned him at the stake for the crime of bringing the Bible to the people. The biggest thing keeping Muslims from reading the Koran is illiteracy.

And I would say we're guilty of judging the Muslims in a way we don't want to be judged. (Matthew 7) It's right to condemn the extremists just as we should condemn those of any other faith. But what I've been reading on this board does not make that distinction. We seem to see Muslims as the enemy, not the extremist groups. Most Muslims just want to live their lives. I certainly don't want to be judged because of this awful pastor in Arizona or the Christians in Africa killing witches right now.

And let's not forget the big role the US played in bringing ISIS to power. We created the opening that allowed that foul crop to grow. And, through the years, we have interfered in the middle east. We deposed an Iranian government, installed our own pet dictator, and seemed to be shocked when our pet dictator fell to Muslim fundamentalists.

Most people don't even understand the different branches of Islam. How many know the difference between Shia and Sunni? How many know about the bitter hatred between them? How many people know that Iran is bitterly opposed to Isis and has been fighting them? And why, after 9-11, have we largely given the Wahhabis a pass when that act of terrorism grew from Wahhabism? Or that ISIS has sprung forth from Wahhabism?

"Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people."

One of the main reasons that the printing press was not welcomed by the leaders of the christian churches.

I have my doubts about that. But regardless, that was long ago. We all have virtually unlimited access to Biblical knowledge now.

Doubt all you wish, still true.
And yes, it was a long long long time ago, sometime in the 15th century.

Well, I doubt that affects Christianity today.

 

[stradial]

I don't think it's a matter of being secularized; I think it's more about being more civilized and educated. All of us have easy access to our Bibles, so we can read with our own eyes what it says. I have been told that the Muslim clerics actually try to keep other Muslims from reading for themselves, and prefer that their people blindly believe what they are being taught.

In contrast; our Bible warns of false prophets and commands up to pass what we are being taught by the muster of The Word (meaning confirm what our preachers tell us by doing our own Bible study).

And frankly, our society as a whole puts more value on human life than Muslims usually do.

The Koran warns against false prophets as well.

Who does more wrong than those who invent a lie against Allah? They will be turned back to the presence of their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied against their Lord! Behold! The curse of Allah is on those who do wrong! [The Holy Quran,11:18]

Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people. John Wycliffe can tell you about that. The church burned him at the stake for the crime of bringing the Bible to the people. The biggest thing keeping Muslims from reading the Koran is illiteracy.

And I would say we're guilty of judging the Muslims in a way we don't want to be judged. (Matthew 7) It's right to condemn the extremists just as we should condemn those of any other faith. But what I've been reading on this board does not make that distinction. We seem to see Muslims as the enemy, not the extremist groups. Most Muslims just want to live their lives. I certainly don't want to be judged because of this awful pastor in Arizona or the Christians in Africa killing witches right now.

And let's not forget the big role the US played in bringing ISIS to power. We created the opening that allowed that foul crop to grow. And, through the years, we have interfered in the middle east. We deposed an Iranian government, installed our own pet dictator, and seemed to be shocked when our pet dictator fell to Muslim fundamentalists.

Most people don't even understand the different branches of Islam. How many know the difference between Shia and Sunni? How many know about the bitter hatred between them? How many people know that Iran is bitterly opposed to Isis and has been fighting them? And why, after 9-11, have we largely given the Wahhabis a pass when that act of terrorism grew from Wahhabism? Or that ISIS has sprung forth from Wahhabism?

"Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people."

One of the main reasons that the printing press was not welcomed by the leaders of the christian churches.

I have my doubts about that. But regardless, that was long ago. We all have virtually unlimited access to Biblical knowledge now.

Doubt all you wish, still true.
And yes, it was a long long long time ago, sometime in the 15th century.

Well, I doubt that affects Christianity today.

I doubt that also, in fact, I'll go so far as to say, it doesn't.
I was just giving a historical fact.

Knowledge is power.
A lot of people in power weren't happy with the average Joe Blow learning to read and having access to books, sorta evens the playing field and cuts down on the ole power.
Same reason slaves were forbidden to learn to read.

 

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

^^^ This is what a false equivalence looks like.

No, you just grew up with your little superstition and think it's the right one. Here is what Christians do:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/07/the-christian-terrorist-who-vowed-to-kill-muslims-and-may-go-free.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2015/01/un-muslims-ethnically-cleansed-car-2015196546788288.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/central-african-republic-christian-militias-revenge

I could not find any online articles about this. Do you have any links?

Here is just a small sample:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/african-children-denounce_n_324943.html

http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/seven-accused-african-witches-burned-to-death-141011.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/08/25/nigeria.child.witches/

 

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

I'm heard and read that for years. Many of the documentaries I've watched said the same thing. It was apparently forbidden at one time (might still be, dunno) to translate the Quaran into other languages because the clerics didn't want people actually reading it for themselves.

Here is an online English-language version. You can also purchase it in hardcover or paperback from the website.

http://www.wright-house.com/religions/islam/Quran.html

Here is the Skeptic's Annotated Quran. It points out hypocrisy, contradictions, evil, good, and verses on various topics. For those who are interested, the website has the same for the Book of Mormon and the Bible.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

The main reason they don't like it to be translated can be seen in our own Bible. With translation, you lose the original meaning, errors and interpretations creep in, and so on. Just like the best way to understand the Bible is to read it in its original languages, the best way to read the Quran is to read it in its original language. However, translation is not forbidden, although I will concede that there may be some sects within the faith that hold to the original language, just as some sects in Christianity hold to the KJV (a translation with faults of its own, but that's not what this post is about).

Add to that one additional wrinkle: Muslims believe the Quran was spoken by God to Muhammed. However, he was illiterate, so the actual writing it down fell on other people. So, apparently the early Muslims didn't grasp how unreliable an oral tradition is. Nevertheless, they believe it is the words of God as he spoke them. Translation loses the meaning and sense, but is not forbidden.

 

[honeybunny]

^^^ This is what a false equivalence looks like.

No, you just grew up with your little superstition and think it's the right one. Here is what Christians do:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/07/the-christian-terrorist-who-vowed-to-kill-muslims-and-may-go-free.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2015/01/un-muslims-ethnically-cleansed-car-2015196546788288.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/central-african-republic-christian-militias-revenge

I could not find any online articles about this. Do you have any links?

Here is just a small sample:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/african-children-denounce_n_324943.html

http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/seven-accused-african-witches-burned-to-death-141011.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/08/25/nigeria.child.witches/

I am not a Christian sweetheart and you have indeed committed a logical fallacy.

 

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

^^^ This is what a false equivalence looks like.

No, you just grew up with your little superstition and think it's the right one. Here is what Christians do:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/07/the-christian-terrorist-who-vowed-to-kill-muslims-and-may-go-free.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2015/01/un-muslims-ethnically-cleansed-car-2015196546788288.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/central-african-republic-christian-militias-revenge

I could not find any online articles about this. Do you have any links?

Here is just a small sample:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/african-children-denounce_n_324943.html

http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/seven-accused-african-witches-burned-to-death-141011.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/08/25/nigeria.child.witches/

I am not a Christian sweetheart and you have indeed committed a logical fallacy.

I'm glad to hear you're not superstitious, though I see you are condescending. Good for you!

As for the logical fallacy: I gave my reasons. Just because you disagree does not make them a fallacy.

 

[stradial]

When you have religion, any religion, you are going to have religious zealots.
Usually they are confined by what actions they take by the laws of the land, but there are exceptions to this.
The reason you have religious zealots is because they are people who would be zealous about something, they just happened to choose religion.
You have other people who choose sports to be zealous about and you see that same type of behavior there.

So the problem isn't usually the religion, it is the people.
Christianity has had the same problems that any other religion that has been around for a few thousand years has had.
Bad stuff done in the name of religion.
And it still goes on today, but here in the US, it is harder for the zealots to act out, as a group, than it is in some other countries.
But we could make a list, who knows how long, of Christian religious zealots here in the US that were able to get anywhere from a small following to a pretty good sized following, who committed every crime from theft to rape, child molestation and murder.

Now the 1st thing someone is going to say is, those were false prophets.
I don't think any Christian would disagree with that, but what do people in other religions think?
It is the same for people in all religions, most don't have a real clue what the truth is about a religion other than their own.
Heck, even in the Christian religions, which are supposed to be based on the same principles, they don't have a lot of knowledge about other Christian religions.
That is why you get the; "the Baptists believe or do this", "no we don't"; "the Catholics believe or do this", "no we don't"; "the Episcopalians believe or do this", "no we don't"; "the Lutherans believe or do this", "no we don't", etc etc etc.

People are the problem and they will always be the problem.
But that is what happens when women don't listen and run around just eating any old fruit they want.

 

[deewee]

Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people. John Wycliffe can tell you about that. The church burned him at the stake for the crime of bringing the Bible to the people. The biggest thing keeping Muslims from reading the Koran is illiteracy.

And I would say we're guilty of judging the Muslims in a way we don't want to be judged. (Matthew 7) It's right to condemn the extremists just as we should condemn those of any other faith. But what I've been reading on this board does not make that distinction. We seem to see Muslims as the enemy, not the extremist groups. Most Muslims just want to live their lives. I certainly don't want to be judged because of this awful pastor in Arizona or the Christians in Africa killing witches right now.

And let's not forget the big role the US played in bringing ISIS to power. We created the opening that allowed that foul crop to grow. And, through the years, we have interfered in the middle east. We deposed an Iranian government, installed our own pet dictator, and seemed to be shocked when our pet dictator fell to Muslim fundamentalists.

Most people don't even understand the different branches of Islam. How many know the difference between Shia and Sunni? How many know about the bitter hatred between them? How many people know that Iran is bitterly opposed to Isis and has been fighting them? And why, after 9-11, have we largely given the Wahhabis a pass when that act of terrorism grew from Wahhabism? Or that ISIS has sprung forth from Wahhabism?

That is so horrible! I did not realize until a few years ago that they were doing that, the torture they put them through is unfathomable!

I could not find any online articles about this. Do you have any links?

I know when my son did the report on it a few years back he used Google (to start.) There were hundreds of articles at the time. :dunno It was the fact he did the report that made me realize it was happening.

I just typed in burning witches in Africa and received 399,000 hits. What are you typing?

[font=georgia, times new roman, times, serif]Helen Ukpabio, who is nuts herself. I wouldn't call her a true Christian. [/font]
[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif] "...[/font][font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]Helen Ukpabio draws thousands to her revival meetings. Last August, when she had herself consecrated Christendom’s first “lady apostle,” Nigerian politicians and Nollywood actors attended the ceremony..." [/font]

[font=georgia, times new roman, times, serif]I found several other articles, but they were rather vague, not giving full names of the so-called Christians. Only named them as "Pastor SoandSo". [/font]

[font=georgia, times new roman, times, serif]I am more than willing to state that anyone killing someone in the name of God, is just as wrong, as killing someone in the name of Allah. These can not be true Christians, just as someone doing the latter can not be a true Muslim, as it has been argued. What we are talking about are sick individuals, who are drawn to extremist behavior...in both cases. [/font]

 

[deewee]

^^^ This is what a false equivalence looks like.

No, you just grew up with your little superstition and think it's the right one. Here is what Christians do:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/07/the-christian-terrorist-who-vowed-to-kill-muslims-and-may-go-free.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2015/01/un-muslims-ethnically-cleansed-car-2015196546788288.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/central-african-republic-christian-militias-revenge

I could not find any online articles about this. Do you have any links?

Here is just a small sample:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/african-children-denounce_n_324943.html

http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/seven-accused-african-witches-burned-to-death-141011.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/08/25/nigeria.child.witches/

Yes, I read those articles, which are very vague about the perpetrators other than calling them "Christian". I am not saying these incidences are not happening. I am saying the unnamed people committing these atrocities can not be true Christians.

A bunch of articles with nothing to support the true identity of guilty parties. If it can be said that the Islam extremists are not true Muslims, then the same can be said of the guilty in these stories.

 

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

Yes, I read those articles, which are very vague about the perpetrators other than calling them "Christian". I am not saying these incidences are not happening. I am saying the unnamed people committing these atrocities can not be true Christians.

A bunch of articles with nothing to support the true identity of guilty parties. If it can be said that the Islam extremists are not true Muslims, then the same can be said of the guilty in these stories.

I agree about the bolded part. Except for one thing: I think the extremists are true Muslims, just as I think the examples of Christian extremists are true Christians. If they have accepted Jesus as their savior, are they not saved?

My whole reason for posting this is because of people like Ted Cruz who only want Christian refugees in this country (unless they're Mexican). We have people saying that "Muslim" is the problem, not extremist.

I started this thread because I think it's important to recognize extremism in our own faith and to judge Muslims by the same standards we hold ourselves to. ISIS is an evil group that wants to spread ignorance and darkness across the world. The pastor I posted has the same attitude. But, at the moment, he can't get away with the extreme acts. However, I posted links of other places where Christians do get away with those extreme acts.

We need to be introspective. History has examples of educated, civilized nations like ours descending into barbarism and evil in just a few short years, entirely through internal forces.

 

[deewee]

Yes, I read those articles, which are very vague about the perpetrators other than calling them "Christian". I am not saying these incidences are not happening. I am saying the unnamed people committing these atrocities can not be true Christians.

A bunch of articles with nothing to support the true identity of guilty parties. If it can be said that the Islam extremists are not true Muslims, then the same can be said of the guilty in these stories.

I agree about the bolded part. Except for one thing: I think the extremists are true Muslims, just as I think the examples of Christian extremists are true Christians. If they have accepted Jesus as their savior, are they not saved?

My whole reason for posting this is because of people like Ted Cruz who only want Christian refugees in this country (unless they're Mexican). We have people saying that "Muslim" is the problem, not extremist.

I started this thread because I think it's important to recognize extremism in our own faith and to judge Muslims by the same standards we hold ourselves to. ISIS is an evil group that wants to spread ignorance and darkness across the world. The pastor I posted has the same attitude. But, at the moment, he can't get away with the extreme acts. However, I posted links of other places where Christians do get away with those extreme acts.

We need to be introspective. History has examples of educated, civilized nations like ours descending into barbarism and evil in just a few short years, entirely through internal forces.

I respectfully disagree about them being true Christians. One can call themselves a Christian, without ever having been saved.

There are indeed extremists everywhere, and religion is a great place for an extremist to "hide". I don't think anyone would argue that.

 

[honeybunny]

Islam has a violence problem. Pointing out that fact does not make you bigoted or hypocritical,
it is a simple recognition of reality. Pointing to isolated anecdotes of Christian terrorism is a ploy
to deflect away from the issue at hand.


Islamist terrorist attacks over just the last 30 days :

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks