So this Iran deal...

lotstodo

aka "The Jackal"
...has got me wondering about our position on the world stage. I think we have taken a back seat to even France now.

First lets get this out of the way. John Kerry is probably the reason we couldn't take the reigns here. He's incompetent, no getting around that simple fact. He is not a diplomat, negotiator or an expert on any aspect of nuclear material, armament, war capability, inspection, or any thing at all to do with these talks. It might as well be my 80 year old aunt at the table with a United States sign in front of her.

Second, lets get this out of the way too. it's a negotiation, we were never going to get everything we wanted.

Third, lets be very clear here, it appears that we went in not even expecting our needs and were willing from day one to let Iran have the bomb. We just didn't want them to have it during Hillary's Presidency.

Fourth, and this is the most important. Iran will break the deal, and when they do, we will have no recourse but to watch them create a nuclear weapon in an fully functioning and impenetrable underground facility that we did not demand be destroyed.

Now this is in fact some sort of deal, not a complete capitulation. But it still leaves Iran capable of producing a nuclear weapon in about a year. The second weapon would be harder to come by if they actually stick to the agreement for a while, but how many do they need to attack Israel?

This is not the worst possible deal given the fact that apparently France was the hawk here. However leaving Fordow open and equipped will turn out to be the biggest mistake we will make. They went from about 10,000 ruined centrifuges after Stuxnet back to full capacity in just two years, far quicker than anyone anticipated. there is no reason that they couldn't do that again.

So it is good that they are giving up their more capable centrifuges. It is good that they are significantly reducing their stockpiles of more highly refined nuclear material and limiting their enrichment to lower levels. It is good that they are apparently allowing inspections (but many still remember Saddam). It's bad that they will be allowed to play with Plutonium. It's bad that they will still have any fissible material capable of being used in a bomb. It is bad that they still have an impenetrable reactor site capable of returning to full capacity and producing a weapon in a years time of less. It is bad that after ten years, they can do pretty much as they please. It's bad that they are still free to develop delivery systems. It is bad that with Iran having any nuclear capability whatsoever the Saudis have said that they intend to develop a nuclear weapon of their own.
 
Are the negotiation results really surprising to anyone? Our "leadership" (in quotes because we really have none, I could have just as easily typed unicorn) is an absolute embarrassment. I'm just sick of politics, and the lack thereof. The ship is truly sinking, I think I'll fish while I still can.
 
John Francois Kerry is just a complete embarrassment at every turn. Esp. as SecState. Ye gods.

I've been rather proud of France at times in the last few years. :D
 
I believe the preferred media nomenclature is "framework for a future agreement."

I counted Obama's use of the word "IF" at least 127 times before I got bored and took a nap.


:sleep
 
lotstodo date=1428088190 said:
...has got me wondering about our position on the world stage. I think we have taken a back seat to even France now.

First lets get this out of the way. John Kerry is probably the reason we couldn't take the reigns here. He's incompetent, no getting around that simple fact. He is not a diplomat, negotiator or an expert on any aspect of nuclear material, armament, war capability, inspection, or any thing at all to do with these talks. It might as well be my 80 year old aunt at the table with a United States sign in front of her.

Second, lets get this out of the way too. it's a negotiation, we were never going to get everything we wanted.

Third, lets be very clear here, it appears that we went in not even expecting our needs and were willing from day one to let Iran have the bomb. We just didn't want them to have it during Hillary's Presidency.

Fourth, and this is the most important. Iran will break the deal, and when they do, we will have no recourse but to watch them create a nuclear weapon in an fully functioning and impenetrable underground facility that we did not demand be destroyed.

Now this is in fact some sort of deal, not a complete capitulation. But it still leaves Iran capable of producing a nuclear weapon in about a year. The second weapon would be harder to come by if they actually stick to the agreement for a while, but how many do they need to attack Israel?

This is not the worst possible deal given the fact that apparently France was the hawk here. However leaving Fordow open and equipped will turn out to be the biggest mistake we will make. They went from about 10,000 ruined centrifuges after Stuxnet back to full capacity in just two years, far quicker than anyone anticipated. there is no reason that they couldn't do that again.

So it is good that they are giving up their more capable centrifuges. It is good that they are significantly reducing their stockpiles of more highly refined nuclear material and limiting their enrichment to lower levels. It is good that they are apparently allowing inspections (but many still remember Saddam). It's bad that they will be allowed to play with Plutonium. It's bad that they will still have any fissible material capable of being used in a bomb. It is bad that they still have an impenetrable reactor site capable of returning to full capacity and producing a weapon in a years time of less. It is bad that after ten years, they can do pretty much as they please. It's bad that they are still free to develop delivery systems. It is bad that with Iran having any nuclear capability whatsoever the Saudis have said that they intend to develop a nuclear weapon of their own.
Does anyone really believe Iran will allow inspections?
 
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I think this sums up the real issue facing our nation with regards to foreign policy.
 
Someone just let me know when we nuke em till the glow.
That should end 3,000 years of BS in that part of the world.
 
There will be a deal whether we like it or not. It may not be a "real" deal at all but the president, democrats, and press will promote it to be the best deal ever. If it does anything at all it will just kick the can down the road until O is out of office.
 
I guess my question is ...

How long, and often, do you try to make a deal with someone who has never kept their end of the agreement on previous "deals"?

May just be me getting older, but at some point I say forget it and just realize they aren't going to negotiate or agree to anything.
 
This really isn't our deal anyway. Western Europe will be the ones buying oil from Iran, and of they agree to drop sanctions then our own sanctions don't mean squat.
 
The middle east has been a mess for 3,000 years.
Talk about holding grudges.
They are still fighting over crap that happened a thousand years ago.
Where else do you see this happening?
You don't see England still fighting with the US over what happened in 1776 and 1812?
You don't see France still surrendering to Germany over what happened in 1940.
(ok, to be fair, I'm sure France would surrender if anyone asked)
You don't see Japan and Russia still fighting over what happened in 1903, or Japan and the US still fighting over 1941.
You don't see the Hatfields and McCoys still fighting.
You don't see the north and the south still.....let's just skip this one.
The list goes on, but to the people in the middle east, war, grudges and feuds are a way of life.
They are like a married couple that gets divorced and are determined to make sure that their ex never has a peaceful day for the rest of their lives, including anyone who is related to the ex or even friends with their ex.

I see no reason to believe things will get better in that part of the world, just worse.
Sometimes when you have a cancer, you have to cut it out and in that process, sometimes good tissue has to be removed also.
In other words, nuke that part of the world till it is glass.
Heck, it's mostly desert, how bad could the fallout be?
 
For years I've said the only way to end the conflict in the Middle East is to take all the rocks away from all of them. If there are not rocks then they have nothing else to do. Every time you turn on the news someone over there is throwing a rock at something.

Seriously though, deal or no deal, Iran will eventually get the bomb and if they are willing (as they claim) to rid the world of ISIS then we will allow them to become the new leader in the Middle East.
 
lotstodo date=1428799344 said:
This really isn't our deal anyway. Western Europe will be the ones buying oil from Iran, and of they agree to drop sanctions then our own sanctions don't mean squat.
What we need to do is increase our oil production to make Iran's oil irrelevant to western Europe.
 
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