Substituting God and Gov\'t

Blazing Saddles

Pursuit Driver
I didn't know whether to put this in the political forum or the religious forum since these two belief systems go hand in hand.

After a few years of listening and debating politics in other low level chat boards, I have come to a conclusion that most people who lean left would love to replace God with government. Not all are anti God but a large segment appear that way. What we as Christians and Jews look for in God, the left wants the gov't to step in and perform. The Lord provides our daily needs for each one of us but the left seems to want the gov't to do this. To me, since they deny the existance of God, they are trying to remove any public acknowledgment of the Lord so they can push the gov'ts agenda which in turn removes people's reliance upon the Lord. In saying this, I am not claiming that the all the Right looks to the Lord for their 'daily bread' but a vast majority line up with the conservative values. To me, this battle is one of the Spiritual Realm that dates back to early man and his relationship with God.
 
To many who are liberal in their beliefs; government is their god.

So yes, I would say that your are correct.
 
You would probably be surprised, but the Christian forum our group ran for several years had professing Christian members who were far left in their views. I was astounded at times. They chose selected scriptures to support their anti-war stance. Well, at least that was when Bush was in office. How they would comment now, I have no idea since the forum is gone. I have a feeling that they would now justify P-Bo's prosecution of the war.

But I believe you are right in your observation. The left makes no bones about removing God from every aspect of the American way of life. Since many of them don't believe in God, their urgency makes no sense at all. I venture to say that most sane folks don't believe there's a Santa Clause, but don't make it a campaign to do away with the idea of Santa Clause or berate those who tell their children about him.

Through the ages, the Christian belief has been attacked and I am confident it will not stop until God tosses Satin into the bottomless pit.
 
I think you are correct. America is following the path of Rome and other once strong governments. They began to sell their seats in government to the highest bidder. That included the Emperor before the empire fell. The decadence they enjoyed is still legendary. ::)
 
It kills me there are so many who call themselves Christians who believe Christianity has no place in government. We are to be good stewards to all God has provided us and that includes government. In other words, God has given us the ability to govern ourselves. Moses spent the majority of his time governing over the people after leaving Egypt. On the advice of his father-in-law, he chose God fearing men to govern over others. Now why do you think he chose God fearing men? I believe it was to serve as an example for future generations of those who believe in God to govern likewise.

We as Christians have an obligation to choose wisely who will govern over us. We should be very involved in the political process. What is happening to Christianity with the removal of Christian references from our public schools and government buildings are examples why we need to be involved. If not, we will begin to see our rights to continue to worship diminish more.

There are those in government who believe tax exemption status for churches should be abolished. The money churches receive is primarily through the tithing of congregations. As tithing comes from our incomes, taxes have already been paid to the government on that money. The most negative effect that would result from abolishing churches tax exemption would be reducing the churches ability to help those in need. Perhaps this is the goal of those who support abolishing the tax exemptions; making those who suffer from hard times more dependent upon the government because churches would be unable to help as much.

Something to think about.
 
I agree with you Fox, and the taxation of church tithes is just one in a long list of examples in which our money is taxed more than once. I wouldn't want to see the churches losing their tax exempt status, but I've said before that if I had a church I'd be tempted to turn down the tax exemption, say whatever I wanted from the pulpit and tell the gov't to get lost if they had a problem with it.

Funny though that people like the Wrong Reverend Wright can say whatever they want from the pulpit without so much as a raised eyebrow from the left. ::)
 
Religion has always played a roll in our government, we just can't allow it to take over our government as is the case in many Muslim countries. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with individuals in government looking to God for guidance in the execution of their duties.

The other side of this coin is, we cannot allow government to take over religion. I believe that some of this is happening as courts rule what religion can and cannot do. Organizations such as AU and the individuals who support them (such as someone we all know) are the worst kind of dangerous; they have declared war on God and done so in God's name.

Brace yourself...strong statement coming...These people are greater enemies to both Christianity and to liberty than the radical islam elements that we are so focused on.
 
Psalms 33:12 - Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD

But as many of you already know, this prescription is what it will take to fix our nation's problems:

2 Chronicles 7:14
if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

You'll note the underlined words which are the key. Christians will have to pray, seek and turn, THEN the healing can begin.
 
Guard Dad said:
Religion has always played a roll in our government, we just can't allow it to take over our government as is the case in many Muslim countries. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with individuals in government looking to God for guidance in the execution of their duties.

The other side of this coin is, we cannot allow government to take over religion. I believe that some of this is happening as courts rule what religion can and cannot do. Organizations such as AU and the individuals who support them (such as someone we all know) are the worst kind of dangerous; they have declared war on God and done so in God's name.

Brace yourself...strong statement coming...These people are greater enemies to both Christianity and to liberty than the radical islam elements that we are so focused on.

I agree with your strong statement. It's not only many of our leaders, but those who vote who think we need to cater to the cultures of other countries as well as other religious beliefs. We are selling ourselves out.

The morals of this country are going right down the toilet.
 
JR,

I am with you. If it means opening the preachers from the pulpit to speak out against what is going on in Washington, I would almost prefer the Church foregoes their tax exempt status. Then again, on the other hand, I fear they would use that tax power against the church.
 
I think we're going to see the tax exemption taken away from churches within the next 12 years.
 
Foxmeister said:
I think we're going to see the tax exemption taken away from churches within the next 12 years.

That will be a big mistake because then there will be nothing to stop the church from getting all over certain politicians and/or parties.
 
The Bible foretells of what will happen to His people. We will see in the next few years how hard it will be to proclaim Christianity in public. We are in for a rude awakening one day and I fear it will be sooner than later. If God is to raise an army for the last days, His army needs to be battle tested and faith strong. Lukewarm believers will have no place in this corp.
 
Many municipalities prevent street preaching already. It won't be long before you won't be able to have a Christian bumper sticker or fish on your car because it will be considered promoting a particular religion on a public funded roadway.
 
I agree with you, too, Blazing Saddles. Many trust the government to care for people more than they trust God.

This passage of Scripture stirs me more and more:

"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders." Isaiah 9:6
 
more to the point. christianity is in the crosshairs. it has not been that long since i read a piece where sharia law was trying to be passed in kansas. that is the good ole us of a. sharia comes from the middle east. muslim countries practice this. i would ask women this much. why would you embrace the muslim religion? you are good enough to bear young. but you must put on a burka and cover yourselves in public. it makes no sense. women have no rights in muslim countries. why would you embrace that religion here. remember the words of Jesus on the cross. behold your mother while he was on the cross dying for our sins. he recognized women at the most harrowing part of his life on earth.
 
Our values, priorities, and morals are developed by our faith. It's ludicrous for anyone to say we should set those aside when making decisions as elected officials or voters at the polls because of "separation of church and state," which has been totally taken out of context by the Left.

Liberals don't us Christians to use our values, priorities and morals when making political decisions because it would prevent a lot of their legislation from becoming law.

Elected Christian: "I oppose abortion because of my religious beliefs. Abortion is the murder of human life in the womb. My faith tells me children are a gift from God."

Elected Liberal: "You can't vote based upon your religious beliefs because you would be violating separation of church and state; therefor you have to vote in favor of abortion."

Elected Christian: "I'm sorry, but I cannot vote in favor of legalizing gambling or prostitution because my faith tells me both are morally wrong."

Elected Liberal: "You can't vote based upon your religious beliefs because you would be violating separation of church and state; therefor you have to vote in favor of legalizing gambling and prostitution."

Liberals: "Jesus was a liberal."

No, Jesus was not a liberal. Many of mankind was not obeying the Commandments God had provided. They were turning away from the Salvation God had already granted them. God sent his Son to demonstrate both his power and His love for us. Not one thing Jesus taught was in contradiction to the Ten Commandments; in fact, His teachings support them. Because we are all sinners, God gave us another way to achieve salvation and that was through the sacrifice of His Son on the cross.

Liberals choose to believe that when Jesus called us to do charitable things for others, it was calling for government to do that. If Jesus had wanted government to do that, He would have said Ceasar should provide those who are in need.

"Be careful not to do your rightness before people to be seen by them; otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven."

"Therefore when you perform charity, do not trumpet it before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogue and in the streets, so that they may be praised by people; amen, I tell you, they receive
thier reward."

"But performing your charity let not your left know what your right does, so that your charity may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will give back to you."
Matthew 6:1-4

Jesus was not calling on government to be responsible for helping others. He was calling on you and I to do that. Now look at how liberals champion themselves to be the caregivers to those in need. Do they not trumpet it before us, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues Jesus was talking about? Do they really consider themselves charitable when they take from others to give to others?
 
And as Christians we need to be fed....so why are church numbers down across the country.

BS -I agree we (Christians) need to be ready to rise up cause the day is coming.
 
A lot of people discount the "birth pains" Jesus talked about. I know some have been happening for years but when some things occur, you can't deny that we are in the last days.
 
Foxmeister said:
...Do they really consider themselves charitable when they take from others to give to others?

Exactly! We need to give of ourselves, not to charge the government with coecing other people to give under pain of a fine or jail sentence.

Every once in the while I will hear someone on the radio talking about a relative in dire need and how that proves that the government needs to provide in that situation. I always think: "For goodness sake! Why in the world don't you help your own relative?!?!"

Furthermore, when the government "gives," they do not give according to an informed conscience, but support many life choices that are at odds with Christian teachings, and, as such, at odds with the fundamental dignity of man.

We need a great turning of hearts in this country, that's for sure.
 
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