Why are we experiencing an epidemic of open sin in the church today?

[Kattie E]

Furthermore, just look at one of the news headlines at the top of the hwy today, "US Presbyterian church ordains first gay minister".

How can anyone who reads the Bible think that is of God?

 

[ShoeDiva]

Furthermore, just look at one of the news headlines at the top of the hwy today, "US Presbyterian church ordains first gay minister".

How can anyone who reads the Bible think that is of God?

Didn't we have a four or five page conversation regarding that?

 

[ShoeDiva]

I have been pondering this for a couple of years. I posted on my fb status awhile back, "there is so much world in the church there is no room for God". And I believe that.

I think church boards are squelching the pastor from preaching the truth. It's all about $$$. And you are all right, the church has to be politically correct. The more worldly it is, the more welcome it is.

Folks used to be drawn to church to see the movement of God. But now by the time folks get their coffee, sing a few of those almost meaningless wall songs and the pastor has to make sure he gets folks home in time to see the current sports game, the time for God moving is just gone.

I have talked with a close friend and told her I would just like to find a small church with no programs, where you walk in and sing hymns, pray and listen to a pastor preach the full truth. I don't want to attend a church to be social, I want to go there to worship God.

I agree and disagree with this. I do believe in many ways the pastor/minister/priest can not preach as he wants because the church is worried about money or hurting someones feelings. I do find that disdainful.
Now the not attending church with any programs or be social. I do not agree. Many programs are worthwhile for the community, many get a non church member in that winds up attending. Bible studies, outreach programs, children and teen programs, all have a place in a church. I want to socialize with others of like mind. Is that not one of the reasons we all come to this site? As long as I have been going to church (I was christened within days of my birth, so a very long time) The social aspect has been there. That alone does not make church all about that. That would be me. If I wasn't getting something from the sermon, I would look toward myself, not that the church has programs.

P.S. What is meaningless wall songs that you mentioned?

 

[ShoeDiva]

I'd love to hear your thoughts!

::ditto

 

[Kattie E]

I have been pondering this for a couple of years. I posted on my fb status awhile back, "there is so much world in the church there is no room for God". And I believe that.

I think church boards are squelching the pastor from preaching the truth. It's all about $$$. And you are all right, the church has to be politically correct. The more worldly it is, the more welcome it is.

Folks used to be drawn to church to see the movement of God. But now by the time folks get their coffee, sing a few of those almost meaningless wall songs and the pastor has to make sure he gets folks home in time to see the current sports game, the time for God moving is just gone.

I have talked with a close friend and told her I would just like to find a small church with no programs, where you walk in and sing hymns, pray and listen to a pastor preach the full truth. I don't want to attend a church to be social, I want to go there to worship God.

I agree and disagree with this. I do believe in many ways the pastor/minister/priest can not preach as he wants because the church is worried about money or hurting someones feelings. I do find that disdainful.
Now the not attending church with any programs or be social. I do not agree. Many programs are worthwhile for the community, many get a non church member in that winds up attending. Bible studies, outreach programs, children and teen programs, all have a place in a church. I want to socialize with others of like mind. Is that not one of the reasons we all come to this site? As long as I have been going to church (I was christened within days of my birth, so a very long time) The social aspect has been there. That alone does not make church all about that. That would be me. If I wasn't getting something from the sermon, I would look toward myself, not that the church has programs.

P.S. What is meaningless wall songs that you mentioned?

Well let's see if I can explain this better. When I walk thru the doors of the church I want my mind centered as much on God and the worship of Him as possible.

I have been in church all my life and it has been my experience that you don't have to be inside the church that long before someone will start talking about someone else in a negative manner. It is rarely in the form of can we pray for this person, but, look at what this person is doing. That's what I mean by not wanting to be social b/c it seems to always turn into a negative. I really want to be focused on God as much as possible when I am in His house of worship.

I, as a Christian, should be reaching out everyday. It shouldn't take a program at church to get me to do this.

Meaningless wall songs started showing up in churches about 15 or 20 yrs ago. At that time they were put on an overhead projecter and shown on the wall at the front/side of the church. These songs typically were really just choruses of the same thing over and over again. They were not the beautifully written melodic and majestic songs such as hymns are.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I have been pondering this for a couple of years. I posted on my fb status awhile back, "there is so much world in the church there is no room for God". And I believe that.

I think church boards are squelching the pastor from preaching the truth. It's all about $$$. And you are all right, the church has to be politically correct. The more worldly it is, the more welcome it is.

Folks used to be drawn to church to see the movement of God. But now by the time folks get their coffee, sing a few of those almost meaningless wall songs and the pastor has to make sure he gets folks home in time to see the current sports game, the time for God moving is just gone.

I have talked with a close friend and told her I would just like to find a small church with no programs, where you walk in and sing hymns, pray and listen to a pastor preach the full truth. I don't want to attend a church to be social, I want to go there to worship God.

I agree and disagree with this. I do believe in many ways the pastor/minister/priest can not preach as he wants because the church is worried about money or hurting someones feelings. I do find that disdainful.
Now the not attending church with any programs or be social. I do not agree. Many programs are worthwhile for the community, many get a non church member in that winds up attending. Bible studies, outreach programs, children and teen programs, all have a place in a church. I want to socialize with others of like mind. Is that not one of the reasons we all come to this site? As long as I have been going to church (I was christened within days of my birth, so a very long time) The social aspect has been there. That alone does not make church all about that. That would be me. If I wasn't getting something from the sermon, I would look toward myself, not that the church has programs.

P.S. What is meaningless wall songs that you mentioned?

Well let's see if I can explain this better. When I walk thru the doors of the church I want my mind centered as much on God and the worship of Him as possible.

I have been in church all my life and it has been my experience that you don't have to be inside the church that long before someone will start talking about someone else in a negative manner. It is rarely in the form of can we pray for this person, but, look at what this person is doing. That's what I mean by not wanting to be social b/c it seems to always turn into a negative. I really want to be focused on God as much as possible when I am in His house of worship.

I, as a Christian, should be reaching out everyday. It shouldn't take a program at church to get me to do this.

Meaningless wall songs started showing up in churches about 15 or 20 yrs ago. At that time they were put on an overhead projecter and shown on the wall at the front/side of the church. These songs typically were really just choruses of the same thing over and over again. They were not the beautifully written melodic and majestic songs such as hymns are.

I can agree that some people are negative. I avoid them. I have that smile and walk away down pat.

Yes as a christian you should be reaching out everyday. I just see the programs as another way to do so with like minded people. I have also seen programs get people that might not have had a relationship with God or the church bring them to one.

Hmm, I have never seen a song on a wall. That is odd. We use hymnals.

 

[Kattie E]

I have been pondering this for a couple of years. I posted on my fb status awhile back, "there is so much world in the church there is no room for God". And I believe that.

I think church boards are squelching the pastor from preaching the truth. It's all about $$$. And you are all right, the church has to be politically correct. The more worldly it is, the more welcome it is.

Folks used to be drawn to church to see the movement of God. But now by the time folks get their coffee, sing a few of those almost meaningless wall songs and the pastor has to make sure he gets folks home in time to see the current sports game, the time for God moving is just gone.

I have talked with a close friend and told her I would just like to find a small church with no programs, where you walk in and sing hymns, pray and listen to a pastor preach the full truth. I don't want to attend a church to be social, I want to go there to worship God.

I agree and disagree with this. I do believe in many ways the pastor/minister/priest can not preach as he wants because the church is worried about money or hurting someones feelings. I do find that disdainful.
Now the not attending church with any programs or be social. I do not agree. Many programs are worthwhile for the community, many get a non church member in that winds up attending. Bible studies, outreach programs, children and teen programs, all have a place in a church. I want to socialize with others of like mind. Is that not one of the reasons we all come to this site? As long as I have been going to church (I was christened within days of my birth, so a very long time) The social aspect has been there. That alone does not make church all about that. That would be me. If I wasn't getting something from the sermon, I would look toward myself, not that the church has programs.

P.S. What is meaningless wall songs that you mentioned?

Well let's see if I can explain this better. When I walk thru the doors of the church I want my mind centered as much on God and the worship of Him as possible.

I have been in church all my life and it has been my experience that you don't have to be inside the church that long before someone will start talking about someone else in a negative manner. It is rarely in the form of can we pray for this person, but, look at what this person is doing. That's what I mean by not wanting to be social b/c it seems to always turn into a negative. I really want to be focused on God as much as possible when I am in His house of worship.

I, as a Christian, should be reaching out everyday. It shouldn't take a program at church to get me to do this.

Meaningless wall songs started showing up in churches about 15 or 20 yrs ago. At that time they were put on an overhead projecter and shown on the wall at the front/side of the church. These songs typically were really just choruses of the same thing over and over again. They were not the beautifully written melodic and majestic songs such as hymns are.

Hmm, I have never seen a song on a wall. That is odd. We use hymnals.

Just as it should be.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I have been pondering this for a couple of years. I posted on my fb status awhile back, "there is so much world in the church there is no room for God". And I believe that.

I think church boards are squelching the pastor from preaching the truth. It's all about $$$. And you are all right, the church has to be politically correct. The more worldly it is, the more welcome it is.

Folks used to be drawn to church to see the movement of God. But now by the time folks get their coffee, sing a few of those almost meaningless wall songs and the pastor has to make sure he gets folks home in time to see the current sports game, the time for God moving is just gone.

I have talked with a close friend and told her I would just like to find a small church with no programs, where you walk in and sing hymns, pray and listen to a pastor preach the full truth. I don't want to attend a church to be social, I want to go there to worship God.

I agree and disagree with this. I do believe in many ways the pastor/minister/priest can not preach as he wants because the church is worried about money or hurting someones feelings. I do find that disdainful.
Now the not attending church with any programs or be social. I do not agree. Many programs are worthwhile for the community, many get a non church member in that winds up attending. Bible studies, outreach programs, children and teen programs, all have a place in a church. I want to socialize with others of like mind. Is that not one of the reasons we all come to this site? As long as I have been going to church (I was christened within days of my birth, so a very long time) The social aspect has been there. That alone does not make church all about that. That would be me. If I wasn't getting something from the sermon, I would look toward myself, not that the church has programs.

P.S. What is meaningless wall songs that you mentioned?

Well let's see if I can explain this better. When I walk thru the doors of the church I want my mind centered as much on God and the worship of Him as possible.

I have been in church all my life and it has been my experience that you don't have to be inside the church that long before someone will start talking about someone else in a negative manner. It is rarely in the form of can we pray for this person, but, look at what this person is doing. That's what I mean by not wanting to be social b/c it seems to always turn into a negative. I really want to be focused on God as much as possible when I am in His house of worship.

I, as a Christian, should be reaching out everyday. It shouldn't take a program at church to get me to do this.

Meaningless wall songs started showing up in churches about 15 or 20 yrs ago. At that time they were put on an overhead projecter and shown on the wall at the front/side of the church. These songs typically were really just choruses of the same thing over and over again. They were not the beautifully written melodic and majestic songs such as hymns are.

Hmm, I have never seen a song on a wall. That is odd. We use hymnals.

Just as it should be.

:thumbsup LOL. I was just telling my husband about the "wall songs" and I felt better that he had never heard of that either. Sometimes I wonder about my not knowing..... :laugh

 

[kittycat]

Our church is still growing and we do the wall songs..........we have 1 key board player and 3 people that get on stage and lead in songs..........on the wall......Yes I can still praise and worship just as if I had a book in my hand.....

 

[LisaC]

We have the wall songs too, along with an awesome choir and band (piano, organ, drums, and guitars). I love our church, but we also have the negative nelly's that come in to gossip and socialize. I'm sure that I've been guilty of it a time or two myself, but I usually end up convicted about before the preacher gets through with sharing the Word. It's funny how God knows how to send just the right verse to straighten us out sometimes.... I love our church - the preacher preaches the truth of the Bible and the elders have never encouraged him to do otherwise.

 

[kittycat]

We have the wall songs too, along with an awesome choir and band (piano, organ, drums, and guitars). I love our church, but we also have the negative nelly's that come in to gossip and socialize. I'm sure that I've been guilty of it a time or two myself, but I usually end up convicted about before the preacher gets through with sharing the Word. It's funny how God knows how to send just the right verse to straighten us out sometimes.... I love our church - the preacher preaches the truth of the Bible and the elders have never encouraged him to do otherwise.

Speaking of Negative nelly's........Last Saturday I went to a church to help with a fund raiser....they were having all kinds of fun things going on for the kids....and a car show.......and the Jeff Brewer Show helped with the gospel singer show ....and when the Impossible Dream came up to do their gospel show......there were several church member women sitting in the front row.....rolling their eyes......and whispering and pointing at the singers making fun of them......I have to admit...we have some awesome singers in our group but these women kept making faces at our group.....I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this.....it made one of our singers so upset she started to cry after the show..........of all people, Christan women acting this way to their guest.....it really bothered me that they acted this way........We didn't get paid a dime.....Jeff did this Elvis gospel show with his group for free to help the benefit and for them to treat them like this was so upsetting......The pastor saw them acting this way and he hung his head in shame......Like I told the group.....you all have God given talents and you were using it for him and not them.......so lets just give thanks to him.....

 

[ShoeDiva]

We have the wall songs too, along with an awesome choir and band (piano, organ, drums, and guitars). I love our church, but we also have the negative nelly's that come in to gossip and socialize. I'm sure that I've been guilty of it a time or two myself, but I usually end up convicted about before the preacher gets through with sharing the Word. It's funny how God knows how to send just the right verse to straighten us out sometimes.... I love our church - the preacher preaches the truth of the Bible and the elders have never encouraged him to do otherwise.

Speaking of Negative nelly's........Last Saturday I went to a church to help with a fund raiser....they were having all kinds of fun things going on for the kids....and a car show.......and the Jeff Brewer Show helped with the gospel singer show ....and when the Impossible Dream came up to do their gospel show......there were several church member women sitting in the front row.....rolling their eyes......and whispering and pointing at the singers making fun of them......I have to admit...we have some awesome singers in our group but these women kept making faces at our group.....I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this.....it made one of our singers so upset she started to cry after the show..........of all people, Christan women acting this way to their guest.....it really bothered me that they acted this way........We didn't get paid a dime.....Jeff did this Elvis gospel show with his group for free to help the benefit and for them to treat them like this was so upsetting......The pastor saw them acting this way and he hung his head in shame......Like I told the group.....you all have God given talents and you were using it for him and not them.......so lets just give thanks to him.....

:faint

 

[LisaC]

Speaking of Negative nelly's........Last Saturday I went to a church to help with a fund raiser....they were having all kinds of fun things going on for the kids....and a car show.......and the Jeff Brewer Show helped with the gospel singer show ....and when the Impossible Dream came up to do their gospel show......there were several church member women sitting in the front row.....rolling their eyes......and whispering and pointing at the singers making fun of them......I have to admit...we have some awesome singers in our group but these women kept making faces at our group.....I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this.....it made one of our singers so upset she started to cry after the show..........of all people, Christan women acting this way to their guest.....it really bothered me that they acted this way........We didn't get paid a dime.....Jeff did this Elvis gospel show with his group for free to help the benefit and for them to treat them like this was so upsetting......The pastor saw them acting this way and he hung his head in shame......Like I told the group.....you all have God given talents and you were using it for him and not them.......so lets just give thanks to him.....

Absolutely - you won't see me making fun of people that can sing, even the princess tells me that my singing is bad.... It's saying something when your 4 year old says, "Mommy stop, you're singing too loud and it's just not good." Guess I need to figure out a different way to make a joyful noise...

 

[kittycat]

Speaking of Negative nelly's........Last Saturday I went to a church to help with a fund raiser....they were having all kinds of fun things going on for the kids....and a car show.......and the Jeff Brewer Show helped with the gospel singer show ....and when the Impossible Dream came up to do their gospel show......there were several church member women sitting in the front row.....rolling their eyes......and whispering and pointing at the singers making fun of them......I have to admit...we have some awesome singers in our group but these women kept making faces at our group.....I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this.....it made one of our singers so upset she started to cry after the show..........of all people, Christan women acting this way to their guest.....it really bothered me that they acted this way........We didn't get paid a dime.....Jeff did this Elvis gospel show with his group for free to help the benefit and for them to treat them like this was so upsetting......The pastor saw them acting this way and he hung his head in shame......Like I told the group.....you all have God given talents and you were using it for him and not them.......so lets just give thanks to him.....

Absolutely - you won't see me making fun of people that can sing, even the princess tells me that my singing is bad.... It's saying something when your 4 year old says, "Mommy stop, you're singing too loud and it's just not good." Guess I need to figure out a different way to make a joyful noise...

Nothing was wrong with their singing.......they sounded awesome........everyone else seem to enjoy and have a great time.....but these 4 women on the front row didn't have nothing else better to do but show themselves.....it was the eye rolling that really discussed me......and for me to be told they were members of this church....unbelievable..These women had to be in their late 40's or early 50's......just say they SUXED at being a Christan Saturday........

 

[LisaC]

Nothing was wrong with their singing.......they sounded awesome........everyone else seem to enjoy and have a great time.....but these 4 women on the front row didn't have nothing else better to do but show themselves.....it was the eye rolling that really discussed me......and for me to be told they were members of this church....unbelievable..These women had to be in their late 40's or early 50's......just say they SUXED at being a Christan Saturday........

Their pastor should have put a stop to it - he apparently wasn't embarassed enough to step in (which, in my opinion, is his role in the church).

 

[kittycat]

Nothing was wrong with their singing.......they sounded awesome........everyone else seem to enjoy and have a great time.....but these 4 women on the front row didn't have nothing else better to do but show themselves.....it was the eye rolling that really discussed me......and for me to be told they were members of this church....unbelievable..These women had to be in their late 40's or early 50's......just say they SUXED at being a Christan Saturday........

Their pastor should have put a stop to it - he apparently wasn't embarassed enough to step in (which, in my opinion, is his role in the church).

I thought the same thing.....wonder why he didn't ....