re: praying to the virgin mary

ShoeDiva said:
Blazing Saddles said:
For everyone else interested.....

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Roman_Catholic_Mariology#section_3

I don't know how else to stress the fact that I'm not being hateful or condemning toward this worship of Mary. I'm just presenting the facts. If others choose not to believe what is said, that's fine but the facts speak for themselves. If anyone wants to turn the tone, please don't engage in the conversion. I'm not here to argue about this or condemn Catholic believers.
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I can engage anywhere I want and it was beautiful MeiLans topic that I came into, if it was yours I would have stayed away.
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Everyone has that same choice.
 
Madea said:
ShoeDiva said:
Blazing Saddles said:
For everyone else interested.....

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Roman_Catholic_Mariology#section_3

I don't know how else to stress the fact that I'm not being hateful or condemning toward this worship of Mary. I'm just presenting the facts. If others choose not to believe what is said, that's fine but the facts speak for themselves. If anyone wants to turn the tone, please don't engage in the conversion. I'm not here to argue about this or condemn Catholic believers.
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I can engage anywhere I want and it was beautiful MeiLans topic that I came into, if it was yours I would have stayed away.
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Everyone has that same choice.
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Your point being? I never said otherwise Madea. :)
 
deewee said:
I believe much of what is written there, as in verses listed in support of the explanation, is an example of taking scripture beyond it's intent.
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Interpretation on everything in the bible is what brings on these conversations. I believe we have had that conversation when it comes to divorce, remarriage, and even being a deacon of the church. It is the faiths interpretation of passages. That is why when someone tries to make a point with what he reads, someone else can make a different point with the same verse in what they read. How can you be positive that the intent you think it reads is actually the intent? Maybe the intent of that verse is exactly how someone else explained it. That is why when one of one faith tries to educate others on another faith it does come across as somewhat patronizing and saying the other is wrong and theirs is right.

When it comes down to it, I like to believe we all believe in God and that is the most important thing. I do not want to think one is better than another, they are just different. :)
 
honeybunny said:
ShoeDiva said:
honeybunny said:
I prayed to Saint Anne in Quebec and was blessed with a miracle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_of_Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupr%C3%A9

:love
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Awesome. :)
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We prayed to be parents for over 14 years... and after a series of truly amazing and impossible events,
all of which started with a strange and beautiful trip to QC Canada, and ended with a tiny baby to love.

:love
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I thought that might be what you were referring to. :hug
 
ShoeDiva said:
deewee said:
I believe much of what is written there, as in verses listed in support of the explanation, is an example of taking scripture beyond it's intent.
Click to expand...

Interpretation on everything in the bible is what brings on these conversations. I believe we have had that conversation when it comes to divorce, remarriage, and even being a deacon of the church. It is the faiths interpretation of passages. That is why when someone tries to make a point with what he reads, someone else can make a different point with the same verse in what they read. How can you be positive that the intent you think it reads is actually the intent? Maybe the intent of that verse is exactly how someone else explained it. That is why when one of one faith tries to educate others on another faith it does come across as somewhat patronizing and saying the other is wrong and theirs is right.

When it comes down to it, I like to believe we all believe in God and that is the most important thing. I do not want to think one is better than another, they are just different. :)
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I agree. The MOST important thing is having a personal relationship with God thru Jesus' sacrifice. Much of the rest can be like splitting hairs.
 
honeybunny said:
ShoeDiva said:
honeybunny said:
I prayed to Saint Anne in Quebec and was blessed with a miracle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_of_Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupr%C3%A9

:love
Click to expand...


Awesome. :)
Click to expand...

We prayed to be parents for over 14 years... and after a series of truly amazing and impossible events,
all of which started with a strange and beautiful trip to QC Canada, and ended with a tiny baby to love.

:love
Click to expand...

:love :love :love :love :love :love :love
 
deewee said:
ShoeDiva said:
deewee said:
I believe much of what is written there, as in verses listed in support of the explanation, is an example of taking scripture beyond it's intent.
Click to expand...

Interpretation on everything in the bible is what brings on these conversations. I believe we have had that conversation when it comes to divorce, remarriage, and even being a deacon of the church. It is the faiths interpretation of passages. That is why when someone tries to make a point with what he reads, someone else can make a different point with the same verse in what they read. How can you be positive that the intent you think it reads is actually the intent? Maybe the intent of that verse is exactly how someone else explained it. That is why when one of one faith tries to educate others on another faith it does come across as somewhat patronizing and saying the other is wrong and theirs is right.

When it comes down to it, I like to believe we all believe in God and that is the most important thing. I do not want to think one is better than another, they are just different. :)
Click to expand...
I agree. The MOST important thing is having a personal relationship with God thru Jesus' sacrifice. Much of the rest can be like splitting hairs.
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I agree as well. The fundamental, non-negotiables of Christianity, such as man's separation from God because of sin, and Jesus's sacrificial death on the cross to pay for said sin, and the virgin birth, etc....those things I will not and cannot back down on. The rest, eh...I'll let God sort it all out when I get to heaven. In the words of the great John MacArthur, who was quoting a theologian of old, I know my theology is off somewhere; I just wish I knew where. ;)
 
BTW, I didn't post this in order to start a theological fracas...I just thought it was interesting to hear it explained as it was, since I have tried so long to understand this particular feature of RCism.
 
deewee said:
An elderly lady I cared for explained it to me that they pray to Mary because they believe her to be without sin, like Jesus. She's the only catholic I've ever asked, so I've no clue if other Catholics believe that, or not. :shrug
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Deewee,
Mary's freedom from original sin is not exactly why we ask for her intercession. We ask her to pray for us because she is close to, specially dear to, her Divine Son, Jesus. Do you remember Jesus' first miracle at the wedding feast in Cana? He spoke reluctantly about acting in that situation, but, in the end, He did what pleased his mother.
 
Blazing Saddles said:
Catholics do believe in praying to Mary. Half of my family is Catholic for what it's worth. I was raised early on to be one too. They believe she was without sin like Jesus and ascended into Heaven. They believe that who better to ask to petition Jesus than His mother herself? No biblical reasoning behind that one. Scripture clearly says we have but ONE person to petition the Father in Heaven and that is the man of Jesus Christ. 1 Timothy 2:5 says: For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity--the man Christ Jesus. We have access directly with Jesus who mediates for us. Nobody is needed between us and Christ.

I don't say this to insult or mock anything of Catholism or anyone who is a Catholic. I just post what I believe the Bible says to be and not what someone else says it to be. :love
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There is actually a lot of Biblical support for this. One such instance I mentioned in the previous post, but anytime someone in Scripture asks another human being to pray for him, it supports our asking for Mary's--or any saint's--intercession. Why would St. Paul continually ask for prayers if he thought it was better for only him to approach to only God. On the contrary, God is a God of abundance, Who lets us participate in His work--both on earth as the Church Militant, and alive in heaven as the Church Triumphant! Even Our Lord Himself spoke to Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration.
 
Blazing Saddles said:
There are millions of examples that Catholics pray TO Mary. They also pray to Saints. It is what they do. They may ALSO pray "with" Mary at times, but they also pray to her. She is also referred to as "another intercessor", the Mother of God, and co-redemptrix of the universe. With titles like these, they don't just pray "with" her.

Again, I'm not intending all this to be hateful, just informational.

http://www.catholic.com/radio/shows/why-do-we-pray-to-mary-6581

You can jump to the 7:30 mark if you feel free.
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We ask for her intercession, just as we would ask each other for our intercession. Mary, the Mother of God, does have a special place in salvation history. It is her "yes" to the Angel Gabriel that brought about the Incarnation of God, and she, herself, in Scripture, stated that all generations would call her blessed. Our Lord honored her, and we follow Him by honoring her as well.
 
deewee said:
ShoeDiva said:
Blazing Saddles said:
Catholics do believe in praying to Mary. Half of my family is Catholic for what it's worth. I was raised early on to be one too. They believe she was without sin like Jesus and ascended into Heaven. They believe that who better to ask to petition Jesus than His mother herself? No biblical reasoning behind that one. Scripture clearly says we have but ONE person to petition the Father in Heaven and that is the man of Jesus Christ. 1 Timothy 2:5 says: For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity--the man Christ Jesus. We have access directly with Jesus who mediates for us. Nobody is needed between us and Christ.

I don't say this to insult or mock anything of Catholism or anyone who is a Catholic. I just post what I believe the Bible says to be and not what someone else says it to be. :love
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With or through, not to.
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Is that why I've heard people say to "Mary"..."Put in a good word with your son"? I'm just wondering.

Why not just pray directly to God? It is one of the many benefits of being a child of God.
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Sharing His Son's awesome mother is one of the many benefits of being a child of God! See? You made the connection yourself! :love
 
deewee said:
ShoeDiva said:
deewee said:
ShoeDiva said:
Blazing Saddles said:
Catholics do believe in praying to Mary. Half of my family is Catholic for what it's worth. I was raised early on to be one too. They believe she was without sin like Jesus and ascended into Heaven. They believe that who better to ask to petition Jesus than His mother herself? No biblical reasoning behind that one. Scripture clearly says we have but ONE person to petition the Father in Heaven and that is the man of Jesus Christ. 1 Timothy 2:5 says: For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity--the man Christ Jesus. We have access directly with Jesus who mediates for us. Nobody is needed between us and Christ.

I don't say this to insult or mock anything of Catholism or anyone who is a Catholic. I just post what I believe the Bible says to be and not what someone else says it to be. :love
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With or through, not to.
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Is that why I've heard people say to "Mary"..."Put in a good word with your son"? I'm just wondering.

Why not just pray directly to God? It is one of the many benefits of being a child of God.
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She is like a prayer warrior. She can help "put in a good word" or "intercede" on our behalf. There is biblical reference to mother making a request to the King that he can not refuse and I believe that was how I learned about Mary and Jesus and that Mary being Jesus' mother ("Queen") she is not refused by Jesus her son.
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But she has no more access to God that my grandfather in Heaven. She was human like the rest of us. There's also no biblical foundation for anyone interceding for us in Heaven, other than Jesus.
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I would argue that there is a lot more Biblical foundation for Mary than for your grandfather. :)) (Be he ever so good a man...)

Here are just a few of many points I could make from Scripture:

She was a creature, a human being just like us, but she was a special creature, specially created to bear God's son, just as the Ark of the Covenant was specially crafted to bear the presence of God on earth. In fact, one of the titles of Mary is "Ark of the Covenant." Note how the Angel Gabriel calls her "full of grace" when he encounters her. In fact, no one can be full of grace or was called full of grace before the Lord Jesus came and made that possible by His passion, death, and resurrection! How could this have been? Indeed, there can be no explanation other than that Her Son's merits were specially applied to her at her conception so that she could be a perfect vessel for a perfect Son.

Her special place in heaven can be seen in the Book of Revelation. (Revelation 12:1) "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head." And continuing... (Revelation 12:17) "Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s command and hold fast their testimony about Jesus." She is a warrior who fights on our behalf!!

These are just a few of the many things I would write!
 
mei lan said:
As a Protestant, I have never ever understood this. It just didn't make sense to me, and I could never find a Biblical foundation for it, despite talking to many RC friends and watching hours of EWTN. But here is a description by a commenter on lucianne.com on a story about Pope Francis:

Catholics don´t pray TO Mary, they pray WITH her. Certainly you ask your loved ones to pray for you. Certainly you have a picture of a loved one in your pocket that you keep as a remembrance. There are NO Scriptures forbidding us to pray with our loved ones either dead or alive. It seems to me the difference lies in how Catholics and Protestants view the afterlife. Hebrews mentions a ´great cloud of witnesses.´ Catholics see this as those who have died and are alive in Christ and available for petitions.

WOW. I totally understand it now!!!

Original link to comment is http://lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=727155 (post #8).
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Cool! I remember the day I understood after having returned to Catholicism after 18 years of worshipping as a Protestant!
 
ShoeDiva said:
deewee said:
I believe much of what is written there, as in verses listed in support of the explanation, is an example of taking scripture beyond it's intent.
Click to expand...

Interpretation on everything in the bible is what brings on these conversations. I believe we have had that conversation when it comes to divorce, remarriage, and even being a deacon of the church. It is the faiths interpretation of passages. That is why when someone tries to make a point with what he reads, someone else can make a different point with the same verse in what they read. How can you be positive that the intent you think it reads is actually the intent? Maybe the intent of that verse is exactly how someone else explained it. That is why when one of one faith tries to educate others on another faith it does come across as somewhat patronizing and saying the other is wrong and theirs is right.

When it comes down to it, I like to believe we all believe in God and that is the most important thing. I do not want to think one is better than another, they are just different. :)
Click to expand...
Catholicism is way better. ;) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
 
Blazing Saddles said:
Shocking
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Quit fighting, BS!!!! God is calling you back to the sacraments! :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love
 
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