Let's Not Forget the Fundamentalist Element

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

As evil as ISIS is, it's important that we watch out for the same attitudes in other religions as well. Pastor Steven Anderson of the Faithful Word Baptist Church in Arizona has lots to say about the people who were killed in France, essentially implying that they deserved it. Also, apparently France deserves it.

Here are two highlights.

At 5:45 he criticizes the band that was playing.

When you go to a concert of death metal, somebody might get killed! You know, you’re worshiping death, and then, all of a sudden, people start dying!… Well, you love death so much, you bought the ticket, you love worshiping Satan! Well, let’s have some of Satan’s religion come in and shoot you!

I mean, that’s what these people should think about before they go into such a wicked concert...

He goes on to call the leader of the band a "drug-pushing hillbilly faggot."

https://youtu.be/8TzR3CEk73Q?t=5m45s

If you can stand to keep listening, he goes on to explain that France deserved it. I finally got to the point that I couldn't listen to this sick man any more and turned the video off.

 

[stradial]

I understand.

 

[Guard Dad]

Point taken.

But he probably doesn't go around cutting people's heads off.

 

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

Point taken.

But he probably doesn't go around cutting people's heads off.

Luckily he lives in a secular society where the majority of the religious people have taken on secular values. It's not socially acceptable to act on religiously motivated hate in this country, at least not yet.

 

[Madea]

I don't see anywhere that he says if you don't agree with him then he must kill you. Even the Westboro crazies don't kill people.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I don't see anywhere that he says if you don't agree with him then he must kill you. Even the Westboro crazies don't kill people.

You do know that in the Quran that there are multiple places where it also states that you can not kill anyone.

 

[Madea]

I don't see anywhere that he says if you don't agree with him then he must kill you. Even the Westboro crazies don't kill people.

You do know that in the Quran that there are multiple places where it also states that you can not kill anyone.

No. I could not confirm or deny that. I won't even pretend that I know because I have not read it and have no current plans to read it. I do know that the Bible specifically says thou shalt not kill.

I will admit that I resent being compared to ISIS (in any fashion whatsoever, either by the video above (or to Westboro). I can assure you that NO members of my church have posted online pictures of themselves holding someone's severed head in their hand. And, I really don't care to hear anymore about the "Crusades" from almost a thousand years ago.

 

[ShoeDiva]

I don't see anywhere that he says if you don't agree with him then he must kill you. Even the Westboro crazies don't kill people.

You do know that in the Quran that there are multiple places where it also states that you can not kill anyone.

No. I could not confirm or deny that. I won't even pretend that I know because I have not read it and have no current plans to read it. I do know that the Bible specifically says thou shalt not kill.

I will admit that I resent being compared to ISIS (in any fashion whatsoever, either by the video above (or to Westboro). I can assure you that NO members of my church have posted online pictures of themselves holding someone's severed head in their hand. And, I really don't care to hear anymore about the "Crusades" from almost a thousand years ago.

I agree I do too, but I also know thousands of Muslims that feel the same way we do about them being compared to ISIS. Many are speaking out on social media, through their leaders, etc. against the comparison and the fact that they spend so much time apologizing. They did not do it, fanatics taking things out of context (no one says that certain things are not in the Quran, just that they do not apply to this day and time, just like stuff in the Bible that no longer apply) did and they have to live with the constant hatred toward them for what one crazy group does.

 

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

I don't see anywhere that he says if you don't agree with him then he must kill you. Even the Westboro crazies don't kill people.

You do know that in the Quran that there are multiple places where it also states that you can not kill anyone.

No. I could not confirm or deny that. I won't even pretend that I know because I have not read it and have no current plans to read it. I do know that the Bible specifically says thou shalt not kill.

I will admit that I resent being compared to ISIS (in any fashion whatsoever, either by the video above (or to Westboro). I can assure you that NO members of my church have posted online pictures of themselves holding someone's severed head in their hand. And, I really don't care to hear anymore about the "Crusades" from almost a thousand years ago.

I agree I do too, but I also know thousands of Muslims that feel the same way we do about them being compared to ISIS. Many are speaking out on social media, through their leaders, etc. against the comparison and the fact that they spend so much time apologizing. They did not do it, fanatics taking things out of context (no one says that certain things are not in the Quran, just that they do not apply to this day and time, just like stuff in the Bible that no longer apply) did and they have to live with the constant hatred toward them for what one crazy group does.

I post things like this as a reminder that the sick element in ISIS is also in our own faith. Most of us are secularized enough that we don't follow the extreme things in our Bible, but they are there. But, sick people like this man, given the right conditions, could inflame passions. We've seen it in the Muslim world. Right now, the extremist element is getting stronger in Turkey, and it already happened in Afghanistan, Iran, and other countries.

We already are seeing crazies targeting Muslims in this country (or targeting Hindus since they're too ignorant to know the difference). These are the same kinds of people who, in a different environment, would be cutting off heads.

And let's not forget that the Inquisition is a much more contemporary evil of the Christian faith. It didn't end until the 19th/20th centuries (a little fuzzy, depending on definitions). In 1858, there is the Mortara case: a 6-year-old Jewish boy was kidnaped from his parents by Church authorities. Why? He was given emergency baptism by a servant when it looked like he would die. This made him Catholic under church doctrine. The Catholic Church brainwashed him against the religion of his birth and he went on to become a Catholic priest and died that way, thanks to the CHURCH kidnaping him. Pope Pius IX defended this kidnaping. Later, in the 20th century and 21st century this issue came up again as the church attempted to beatify and canonize him. Now, I'm Presbyterian, so I don't believe in either of these things, but I also don't think these honors should be given to a man who defended such an act, and have a problem with the modern church considering them.

Or, more contemporary examples, look at the witches being killed in the modern day by Christians in Africa. Killing for religion is very much alive in the Christian faith.

And that's why we have to fight the hate and evil in our church, and look with clear and open eyes at our own faith. It's easy to turn a blind eye when it's on our side.

 

[stradial]

I don't see anywhere that he says if you don't agree with him then he must kill you. Even the Westboro crazies don't kill people.

You do know that in the Quran that there are multiple places where it also states that you can not kill anyone.

No. I could not confirm or deny that. I won't even pretend that I know because I have not read it and have no current plans to read it. I do know that the Bible specifically says thou shalt not kill.

I will admit that I resent being compared to ISIS (in any fashion whatsoever, either by the video above (or to Westboro). I can assure you that NO members of my church have posted online pictures of themselves holding someone's severed head in their hand. And, I really don't care to hear anymore about the "Crusades" from almost a thousand years ago.

I agree I do too, but I also know thousands of Muslims that feel the same way we do about them being compared to ISIS. Many are speaking out on social media, through their leaders, etc. against the comparison and the fact that they spend so much time apologizing. They did not do it, fanatics taking things out of context (no one says that certain things are not in the Quran, just that they do not apply to this day and time, just like stuff in the Bible that no longer apply) did and they have to live with the constant hatred toward them for what one crazy group does.

And let's not forget that the Inquisition is a much more contemporary evil of the Christian faith. It didn't end until the 19th/20th centuries (a little fuzzy, depending on definitions).

The Inquisition...according to Mel Brooks.
Catchy tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZegQYgygdw

 

[J-man]

There are good and bad "preachers" just as with law enforcement officers, teachers, and yes, even scientists. It's easy to lump everyone in a group when trying to point out strengths or weaknesses. Just because the sign out front says, "Church" doesn't mean it's legit (but even those not legit will take your money). Many are just buildings with a group of people who get together to socialize. I do agree that we need to be critical of religion when questionable aspects are revealed. Just make sure that we pass the plate while being critical.

 

[stradial]

There are good and bad "preachers" just as with law enforcement officers, teachers, and yes, even scientists. It's easy to lump everyone in a group when trying to point out strengths or weaknesses. Just because the sign out front says, "Church" doesn't mean it's legit (but even those not legit will take your money). Many are just buildings with a group of people who get together to socialize. I do agree that we need to be critical of religion when questionable aspects are revealed. Just make sure that we pass the plate while being critical.

Keep those cards and letters coming, dear friends.
But remember, it's hard to put money in a card.

(for you youngsters, this joke was back when people sent postcards, thus the "card" part)

 

[Guard Dad]

I don't think it's a matter of being secularized; I think it's more about being more civilized and educated. All of us have easy access to our Bibles, so we can read with our own eyes what it says. I have been told that the Muslim clerics actually try to keep other Muslims from reading for themselves, and prefer that their people blindly believe what they are being taught.

In contrast; our Bible warns of false prophets and commands up to pass what we are being taught by the muster of The Word (meaning confirm what our preachers tell us by doing our own Bible study).

And frankly, our society as a whole puts more value on human life than Muslims usually do.

 

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

I don't think it's a matter of being secularized; I think it's more about being more civilized and educated. All of us have easy access to our Bibles, so we can read with our own eyes what it says. I have been told that the Muslim clerics actually try to keep other Muslims from reading for themselves, and prefer that their people blindly believe what they are being taught.

In contrast; our Bible warns of false prophets and commands up to pass what we are being taught by the muster of The Word (meaning confirm what our preachers tell us by doing our own Bible study).

And frankly, our society as a whole puts more value on human life than Muslims usually do.

The Koran warns against false prophets as well.

Who does more wrong than those who invent a lie against Allah? They will be turned back to the presence of their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied against their Lord! Behold! The curse of Allah is on those who do wrong! [The Holy Quran,11:18]

Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people. John Wycliffe can tell you about that. The church burned him at the stake for the crime of bringing the Bible to the people. The biggest thing keeping Muslims from reading the Koran is illiteracy.

And I would say we're guilty of judging the Muslims in a way we don't want to be judged. (Matthew 7) It's right to condemn the extremists just as we should condemn those of any other faith. But what I've been reading on this board does not make that distinction. We seem to see Muslims as the enemy, not the extremist groups. Most Muslims just want to live their lives. I certainly don't want to be judged because of this awful pastor in Arizona or the Christians in Africa killing witches right now.

And let's not forget the big role the US played in bringing ISIS to power. We created the opening that allowed that foul crop to grow. And, through the years, we have interfered in the middle east. We deposed an Iranian government, installed our own pet dictator, and seemed to be shocked when our pet dictator fell to Muslim fundamentalists.

Most people don't even understand the different branches of Islam. How many know the difference between Shia and Sunni? How many know about the bitter hatred between them? How many people know that Iran is bitterly opposed to Isis and has been fighting them? And why, after 9-11, have we largely given the Wahhabis a pass when that act of terrorism grew from Wahhabism? Or that ISIS has sprung forth from Wahhabism?

 

[ShoeDiva]

I don't think it's a matter of being secularized; I think it's more about being more civilized and educated. All of us have easy access to our Bibles, so we can read with our own eyes what it says. I have been told that the Muslim clerics actually try to keep other Muslims from reading for themselves, and prefer that their people blindly believe what they are being taught.

In contrast; our Bible warns of false prophets and commands up to pass what we are being taught by the muster of The Word (meaning confirm what our preachers tell us by doing our own Bible study).

And frankly, our society as a whole puts more value on human life than Muslims usually do.

:wut Who told you that?

 

[ShoeDiva]

Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people. John Wycliffe can tell you about that. The church burned him at the stake for the crime of bringing the Bible to the people. The biggest thing keeping Muslims from reading the Koran is illiteracy.

And I would say we're guilty of judging the Muslims in a way we don't want to be judged. (Matthew 7) It's right to condemn the extremists just as we should condemn those of any other faith. But what I've been reading on this board does not make that distinction. We seem to see Muslims as the enemy, not the extremist groups. Most Muslims just want to live their lives. I certainly don't want to be judged because of this awful pastor in Arizona or the Christians in Africa killing witches right now.

And let's not forget the big role the US played in bringing ISIS to power. We created the opening that allowed that foul crop to grow. And, through the years, we have interfered in the middle east. We deposed an Iranian government, installed our own pet dictator, and seemed to be shocked when our pet dictator fell to Muslim fundamentalists.

Most people don't even understand the different branches of Islam. How many know the difference between Shia and Sunni? How many know about the bitter hatred between them? How many people know that Iran is bitterly opposed to Isis and has been fighting them? And why, after 9-11, have we largely given the Wahhabis a pass when that act of terrorism grew from Wahhabism? Or that ISIS has sprung forth from Wahhabism?

That is so horrible! I did not realize until a few years ago that they were doing that, the torture they put them through is unfathomable!

 

[stradial]

I don't think it's a matter of being secularized; I think it's more about being more civilized and educated. All of us have easy access to our Bibles, so we can read with our own eyes what it says. I have been told that the Muslim clerics actually try to keep other Muslims from reading for themselves, and prefer that their people blindly believe what they are being taught.

In contrast; our Bible warns of false prophets and commands up to pass what we are being taught by the muster of The Word (meaning confirm what our preachers tell us by doing our own Bible study).

And frankly, our society as a whole puts more value on human life than Muslims usually do.

The Koran warns against false prophets as well.

Who does more wrong than those who invent a lie against Allah? They will be turned back to the presence of their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied against their Lord! Behold! The curse of Allah is on those who do wrong! [The Holy Quran,11:18]

Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people. John Wycliffe can tell you about that. The church burned him at the stake for the crime of bringing the Bible to the people. The biggest thing keeping Muslims from reading the Koran is illiteracy.

And I would say we're guilty of judging the Muslims in a way we don't want to be judged. (Matthew 7) It's right to condemn the extremists just as we should condemn those of any other faith. But what I've been reading on this board does not make that distinction. We seem to see Muslims as the enemy, not the extremist groups. Most Muslims just want to live their lives. I certainly don't want to be judged because of this awful pastor in Arizona or the Christians in Africa killing witches right now.

And let's not forget the big role the US played in bringing ISIS to power. We created the opening that allowed that foul crop to grow. And, through the years, we have interfered in the middle east. We deposed an Iranian government, installed our own pet dictator, and seemed to be shocked when our pet dictator fell to Muslim fundamentalists.

Most people don't even understand the different branches of Islam. How many know the difference between Shia and Sunni? How many know about the bitter hatred between them? How many people know that Iran is bitterly opposed to Isis and has been fighting them? And why, after 9-11, have we largely given the Wahhabis a pass when that act of terrorism grew from Wahhabism? Or that ISIS has sprung forth from Wahhabism?

"Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people."

One of the main reasons that the printing press was not welcomed by the leaders of the christian churches.

 

[deewee]

Also, the Christian faith has a history of keeping the Bible away from the people. John Wycliffe can tell you about that. The church burned him at the stake for the crime of bringing the Bible to the people. The biggest thing keeping Muslims from reading the Koran is illiteracy.

And I would say we're guilty of judging the Muslims in a way we don't want to be judged. (Matthew 7) It's right to condemn the extremists just as we should condemn those of any other faith. But what I've been reading on this board does not make that distinction. We seem to see Muslims as the enemy, not the extremist groups. Most Muslims just want to live their lives. I certainly don't want to be judged because of this awful pastor in Arizona or the Christians in Africa killing witches right now.

And let's not forget the big role the US played in bringing ISIS to power. We created the opening that allowed that foul crop to grow. And, through the years, we have interfered in the middle east. We deposed an Iranian government, installed our own pet dictator, and seemed to be shocked when our pet dictator fell to Muslim fundamentalists.

Most people don't even understand the different branches of Islam. How many know the difference between Shia and Sunni? How many know about the bitter hatred between them? How many people know that Iran is bitterly opposed to Isis and has been fighting them? And why, after 9-11, have we largely given the Wahhabis a pass when that act of terrorism grew from Wahhabism? Or that ISIS has sprung forth from Wahhabism?

That is so horrible! I did not realize until a few years ago that they were doing that, the torture they put them through is unfathomable!

I could not find any online articles about this. Do you have any links?

 

[Madea]

I know there are Muslims who do not agree with the terrorism that is happening around the world. One example that I personally know of is my good friend's son is a Peace Corp volunteer in Kyrgyzstan. The majority of the country is Muslim. His host family is Muslim. They usually talk on Sundays. Last Sunday, the father specifically requested that he let his parents know that most Muslims didn't support the action in Paris, and that they knew it didn't represent him.

I still discount the idea that if only we were nicer to the terrorists then they would change.


I think Westboro are evil false prophets, but I'm not going to cozy up with them. I'll take that up with Jesus when I get there.

 

[stradial]

I know there are Muslims who do not agree with the terrorism that is happening around the world. One example that I personally know of is my good friend's son is a Peace Corp volunteer in Kyrgyzstan. The majority of the country is Muslim. His host family is Muslim. They usually talk on Sundays. Last Sunday, the father specifically requested that he let his parents know that most Muslims didn't support the action in Paris, and that they knew it didn't represent him.

I still discount the idea that if only we were nicer to the terrorists then they would change.


I think Westboro are evil false prophets, but I'm not going to cozy up with them. I'll take that up with Jesus when I get there.

I agree, 1000%

Some people are just plain nut cakes.

(well, I don't know if they are plain, salted, parched, shelled or boiled, but I do know they are nuts)